Question about Spanish 21 basic strategy

[shinyam]

If you double a 9 against a 2, and end up with a 3, are you supposed to surrender? I don't see anything in the BS chart. However, on hitorsplit.com, the trainer says to do so.

[duanedibley]

Originally Posted by shinyam

If you double a 9 against a 2, and end up with a 3, are you supposed to surrender? I don't see anything in the BS chart. However, on hitorsplit.com, the trainer says to do so.

According to Spanish 21 Basic Strategy, you should not double 9 against 2.

However, if you do double, and you end up with less than 17, it would not be correct to surrender, because you will win (ie the dealer will bust) more than 25% of the time, which is the cut-off for surrendering.

[assume_R]

Yes, if you are using B.S. you should not double a 9v2. In fact, the count would have to be extraordinarily high for you to double your 9v2. You'd probably have your max bet out by the time you double your 9v3, and the probability of getting a count in which it's correct to double a 9v2 in Sp21 is very very rare that it's not worth even learning. Way far "down the list" of the most important indices to learn for Sp21.

And also, the rule for double down rescue is:

1. If you double down, and end up with a 12 - 16, you "Surrender", or "Double Down Rescue" if the dealer is showing an 8 - A.
2. Or, if you double down and get a 17, you Rescue if the dealer has an Ace.

Other than that, don't double down rescue. People also usually don't make indices for rescue, even though it's technically possible to do so.

Source: http://wizardofodds.com/spanish21

Edit: duanedibley, you said, "However, if you do double, and you end up with less than 17 it would not be correct to surrender" but in actuality, if you ended up with less than 17 and the dealer is showing an 8-A you do surrender (rescue).

[assume_R]

Hmmm interesting thought I just had as I answered the question.

Let's say you know the index for a 9v8 double (however high it is), and you double and get a 2 for a total of 11. Logically it seems that you'd rescue that as well, unless redoubling is allowed.

[duanedibley]

Originally Posted by assume_R

Edit: duanedibley, you said, "However, if you do double, and you end up with less than 17 it would not be correct to surrender" but in actuality, if you ended up with less than 17 and the dealer is showing an 8-A you do surrender (rescue).

I was talking specifically about the case of 9 vs 2, which is why I said the dealer will bust >25% of the time, which is naturally not the case vs 8-A.

[shinyam]

Originally Posted by duanedibley

According to Spanish 21 Basic Strategy, you should not double 9 against 2.

However, if you do double, and you end up with less than 17, it would not be correct to surrender, because you will win (ie the dealer will bust) more than 25% of the time, which is the cut-off for surrendering.

Thanks. Bad example. Let's say it's ten agains a six that you double, and you get a 3 for 13.

It's still not correct to rescue your bet, right? The trainer is wrong then...

[duanedibley]

Originally Posted by shinyam

Thanks. Bad example. Let's say it's ten agains a six that you double, and you get a 3 for 13.

It's still not correct to rescue your bet, right? The trainer is wrong then...

You are right, it is not correct to rescue after doubling down in this example (or any time that the dealer is showing 2 through 7).

There do seem to be a few errors with the hitorsplit trainer, so maybe you have found another one of them.

[shinyam]

Another question: On the wizardofodds, the strategy chart says to stay on soft 19-21 vs 10, but to HIT when there are six or more cards.

Are you allowed to hit 21? Why would you? And hitting 20 vs 10 also seems crazy.

[assume_R]

Originally Posted by shinyam

Another question: On the wizardofodds, the strategy chart says to stay on soft 19-21 vs 10, but to HIT when there are six or more cards.

Are you allowed to hit 21? Why would you? And hitting 20 vs 10 also seems crazy.

Regarding being allowed to hit 21, I wouldn't think you'd be allowed, being as there is an "Automatic Win" on a 21. Also never hit a 21, that's just asking for heat

However, the reason you should hit is because of the bonus for a 7-card 21. If you already have 6 cards and you have a soft 20 (so that you can't possibly bust), you have a 1 in 13 chance of getting that 3-1 payout for the 7+ card 21 on your next card, and if you don't get it, you can still try again for your 8th card (since you can't bust on the 7th).

[nuvi]

Originally Posted by shinyam

If you double a 9 against a 2, and end up with a 3, are you supposed to surrender? I don't see anything in the BS chart. However, on hitorsplit.com, the trainer says to do so.

You are not supposed to surrender. The correct play is to stand.

The strategy chart on hitorsplit.com is correct, but the trainer has a bug. The bug has been identified, and I am in the process of fixing it.

I apologize for the confusion.