A reply to MovieCasino$$$

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itakeyourmoney

Well-Known Member
#1
I felt I ought to respond to MC$$$'s b.s. but didn't want to spam Kolan's thread anymore than I already had. I welcome any comments about how lame -- and mathematically incorrect -- JSTAT's magic ten count is. And for that matter, I welcome any mathematical proofs that would prove me, and a lot of other people, wrong. (With real numbers not with just math-ish rhetoric talking about how your system gets more blackjacks...)

moviecasino$$$ said:
JSTAT offered us some mathematical evidence in this thread. Are u a retard Doe? JSTAT was picked on first here, so we responded quickly to the mean spirited attacks against him.
No he didn't. Show me a proof, with numbers, not some "with my system you get blackjacks more often" crap...

Itakeyourmoney is a broke college student. Finn called him a "clown".
The part about my being broke on my profile is a joke, and for future reference so is the part about how I like to hit on hot Asian girls at the casino. In reference to Finn, he was calling the postal worker a clown, not me. (Though perhaps Finn could verify this just to be sure.)

You are a dead person for an unidentified corpse.
I'm not sure if this is a threat or just a really lame insult. Let's take a vote on this one, shall we? :laugh:
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#2
itakeyourmoney said:
The part about my being broke on my profile is a joke, and for future reference so is the part about how I like to hit on hot Asian girls at the casino.
You mean YOU DON'T like to hit on HOT ASIAN girls? Gee, I need to have talk with you! :whip:
 
#3
Being a postal worker, with a lot of stress, channeled my anger into winning at blackjack. I felt like "Going Postal" at times for 23 years in that hostile environment. I was a recovering hi-lo loser at 21 before I discovered my ten count 20 years ago. Yes, the same hi-lo used by the suckers at MIT in the movie 21. The chumps at MIT went bankrupt according to the History Channel's "Breaking Vegas." I was also disgruntled with "The Book" written by recognized blackjack authorities. Everybody seems to refer to "the book." "The book" didn't help me. The Ten Count in the original book "Beat The Dealer(1962)" by Edward O. Thorp was morphed into High-Low in the 1966 edition as the best count. High-low was changed to hi-lo by future authors. A revision that has sent many to the cleaners. The Ten Count has been ignored until now.

In the summer of 2007, my wife and I stayed at Harvey's as we do every summer. Her cousin who has been a resident of South Lake Tahoe since 1976 visited us in our room. He brought his wife, son, and an old friend of his. His friend was named Joe. When he introduced us, he said Joe was the casino manager of Harvey's, but now retired. I looked at him and knew him right away. I worked at Harvey's in 1979. They laid me off because of the gas crisis then. Last one hired, first one fired. I told Joe this and he was shocked. He asked the name of the shift manager at that time. I said his name and Joe believed me. I told him it was a blessing because I moved on to deal the best craps games in Las Vegas. I was pissed that I had to leave Lake Tahoe and my dreams were crushed. For payback of my layoff, I used my Ten Count in 1992 at Harvey's and crushed them at single deck blackjack. Joe was surprised that I got away with it under his watch. I spread $5-$150 and only made big bets when the hi-lo count was negative and the Ten Count showed positive blackjack expectation. I assumed the eye in the sky used hi-lo to evaluate blackjack skill. I won $4000 in 6 hours of nonstop play. This fooled his bosses, and Joe was dismayed.

Our conversation changed to Ed Thorp. Since Joe was the casino manager at the time, I asked him about Thorp's story in "Beat The Dealer(1962)" about Harvey's. Thorp wrote on page 112, "In two hours we broke the bank again. The great heaps of chips in front of us included more than $17,000 in profits. I had won about $6,000 and Mr. X, betting wildly, had won $11,000. I was tiring rapidly. The aftereffects of our huge dinner, the increased effort in managing two hands, and the strain of the last few days were telling. I began to find it very difficult to count properly and saw that Mr. X was equally far gone. I insisted that we quit, and I cashed in my $6,000." Joe's eyes lit up and said,"I threw that bum out of here and you know what he did? He hugged me and kissed me and said thank you!" I asked him about Mr. X and Joe said that he was a known player and let Mr. X play on. Thorp was backed off by Joe instead of "insisting that we quit" as written in "Beat The Dealer." It was surreal spending that afternoon with a part of blackjack history. To hear the untold story of Thorp's adventure at Harvey's with the casino manager who we both beat under his nose.

My Ten Count is an upgrade of Thorp's Ten Count. The non-tens(except aces) are +1, tens are -2. The aces are side counted to calculate blackjack frequencies and perfect insurance. With more tens( plus count ) and aces left, the chances of receiving blackjacks increase. 8's and 9's are also side counted for basic strategy deviations. I managed to be barred all over Nevada using my method. Betting with my head, not over it. You can brag to your friends and family about the fear the casinos will have of you if you play perfect. If six 7's, 8's, or 9's and three 2-6's with four face cards are played at a heads up single deck game, we have the advantage. The chance of being dealt a blackjack rises to 6.47% instead of the 4.83% off the top. The hi-lo count is -1 and the eye in the sky will think we are nuts to make a big bet. I employed this method in the 90's at Reno and Lake Tahoe. Played untouched for seven years. The pit and eye thought I was a long term loser. I laughed all the way to the bank.

I use combinatorial analysis and a calculator which is more accurate than computer sims. Using subsets really shows the power of my Ten Count over hi-lo. For example, we are playing two hands heads up at single deck. Our first hand is A,A and the second is A,9. The dealer shows an ace and asks for insurance. The hi-lo count is -4, not an insurable count. My Ten Count differs because taking insurance is a positive expectation event in this situation. +1 with four aces gone with less than 1/4 deck played takes about +3.5 and above to gain the insurance advantage. 4 aces and +1 equals +5, we take the insurance while the hi-lo counter misses out and is clueless. Here is an another example. At double deck with 26 cards(1/2 deck)played, the count is -10 with 6 aces played and no 8,9's have come out. We have 14-16 vs 7,8 for the dealer. Basic Strategy says to hit, so the hi-lo sheep hit and go bust. My Ten Count says stay because we will bust more, leaving the dealer to bust. Asymmetry of 8,9's with a dealer 7,8 upcard produces more stiffs for the dealer. We buck the tide by standing on 14-16 vs 7,8 leaving the dealer to bust more often. To understand more about the imbalance of cards read Chapter 10 of "Playing Blackjack To Win" by Baldwin, Cantey, Maisel, McDermott. My Ten Count using side counts arguably displaces the Hi-OptII count by Lance Humble as the best count ever.

What about shuffle tracking? If all the dealers shuffle the cards in the exact manner, then yes, the 6 deck shoe can be shuffle tracked. You map out the shuffle and practice it at home. First turn 39 cards over at the bottom. Track where they end up at the end of the shuffle. Then do the next 39 cards and repeat to the last 39 cards. You will know where the slugs of tens and aces are in every shoe. The six deck shuffle at the Bellagio is an example. They say "What Happens In Vegas, Stays in Vegas." Not in this article.

My Ten Count dominates because it takes advantage of asymmetry situations from the side counting of aces, 8's, and 9's. Combinatorial analysis with subsets and a calculator was needed to confirm its power. Blackjack computer simulation is insufficient. The casino executives and book/sim sellers who read this will wrongly say that my Ten Count is very weak, very weak, you who do not drink the casino Kool-Aid will dominate. The hi-lo count is endorsed by "Da Man" or the casino industry. Do they have our interests at heart? No way! I got away with fooling Reno/Tahoe for 7 years in the 90's because of the difference of my blackjack count from hi-lo and other counts.

In January 1997, I was barred from playing 21 after winning 4K at the New York-New York six deck game in Las Vegas. I thought the 4K win would be peanuts. I assumed Vegas was a class town and winning a few thousand wouldn't ruffle any feathers. I played for 13 straight hours spreading $25-$300. They kept giving me free beer. I was having a good time and was polite. I worked my tail off at the post office and did not expect harrassment from Las Vegas casinos for just counting. Like they say, "Out of the frying pan, into the fire." My picture was faxed to every major casino property surveillance department throughout the Surveillance Information Network (SIN for short) in Nevada. My picture is also in every Facial Recognition Software on the Strip. In the commercials for the World Series Of Poker, Gary Loveman(CEO of Harrah's Entertainment) states, " Bet with your head, not over it and gamble responsibly." It is sort of like the Phillip Morris commercials discouraging smoking. My blackjack method flies in the face of conventional blackjack advantage thinking. So if I can't play on a regular basis, others like you can carry the torch. My new YouTube double deck video should give you the feeling of the strength of this count http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLtT8fzQsTc&feature=channel_page
 
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itakeyourmoney

Well-Known Member
#4
Oh come on, you're not actually going to make me read all that, are you? :(

Edit: So you count every card except Aces (including counting 10's as -2) and then you also side count A's, 8's, and 9's?
 
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johndoe

Well-Known Member
#5
Here we go again.

Let's distill out all of the fantasy and spun tales, and other BS, and get to the gist of it:

Count:

2-9=+1, 10's=-2
Side counts: A, 8, 9

This is hardly a simple method. You've got four counts to keep track of!

Can someone here with cvdata just sim this already, so we can put this to rest once and for all?

Oh that's right, for some reason sims are inaccurate, and don't model what happens in real play. Do I have that right?

LOL
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#6
itakeyourmoney said:
Oh come on, you're not actually going to make me read all that, are you? :(
Don't bother. It's exactly the same stuff he's posted before, and it still isn't correct. :rolleyes: It's all just a big cut-and-paste job from his other posts that doesn't answer your post at all. Save your time. Don't read it and don't feed the trolls.

-Sonny-
 

itakeyourmoney

Well-Known Member
#7
johndoe said:
Can someone here with cvdata just sim this already, so we can put this to rest once and for all?

Oh that's right, for some reason sims are inaccurate, and don't model what happens in real play. Do I have that right?

LOL
You're correct -- simulations are rubbish, you should go grab a calculator and do some combinatorial analysis. :laugh:

JSTAT said:
My Ten Count using side counts arguably displaces the Hi-OptII count by Lance Humble as the best count ever.
Well my Rain Man Count -- where you memorize every card in the deck -- arguably displaces your Ten Count as the best count ever. In fact, my count is so good they made a movie about it starring Tom Cruise.
 
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Canceler

Well-Known Member
#8
itakeyourmoney said:
You're correct -- simulations are rubbish, you should go grab a calculator and do some combinatorial analysis. :laugh:
You should probably quit while you're ahead.

Before k_c comes along and clobbers you. (And rightfully so!)
 

KOLAN

Well-Known Member
#9
JSTAT said:
Being a postal worker, with a lot of stress, channeled my anger into winning at blackjack. I felt like "Going Postal" at times for 23 years in that hostile environment. I was a recovering hi-lo loser at 21 before I discovered my ten count 20 years ago. Yes, the same hi-lo used by the suckers at MIT in the movie 21. The chumps at MIT went bankrupt according to the History Channel's "Breaking Vegas." I was also disgruntled with "The Book" written by recognized blackjack authorities. Everybody seems to refer to "the book." "The book" didn't help me. The Ten Count in the original book "Beat The Dealer(1962)" by Edward O. Thorp was morphed into High-Low in the 1966 edition as the best count. High-low was changed to hi-lo by future authors. A revision that has sent many to the cleaners. The Ten Count has been ignored until now.

In the summer of 2007, my wife and I stayed at Harvey's as we do every summer. Her cousin who has been a resident of South Lake Tahoe since 1976 visited us in our room. He brought his wife, son, and an old friend of his. His friend was named Joe. When he introduced us, he said Joe was the casino manager of Harvey's, but now retired. I looked at him and knew him right away. I worked at Harvey's in 1979. They laid me off because of the gas crisis then. Last one hired, first one fired. I told Joe this and he was shocked. He asked the name of the shift manager at that time. I said his name and Joe believed me. I told him it was a blessing because I moved on to deal the best craps games in Las Vegas. I was pissed that I had to leave Lake Tahoe and my dreams were crushed. For payback of my layoff, I used my Ten Count in 1992 at Harvey's and crushed them at single deck blackjack. Joe was surprised that I got away with it under his watch. I spread $5-$150 and only made big bets when the hi-lo count was negative and the Ten Count showed positive blackjack expectation. I assumed the eye in the sky used hi-lo to evaluate blackjack skill. I won $4000 in 6 hours of nonstop play. This fooled his bosses, and Joe was dismayed.

Our conversation changed to Ed Thorp. Since Joe was the casino manager at the time, I asked him about Thorp's story in "Beat The Dealer(1962)" about Harvey's. Thorp wrote on page 112, "In two hours we broke the bank again. The great heaps of chips in front of us included more than $17,000 in profits. I had won about $6,000 and Mr. X, betting wildly, had won $11,000. I was tiring rapidly. The aftereffects of our huge dinner, the increased effort in managing two hands, and the strain of the last few days were telling. I began to find it very difficult to count properly and saw that Mr. X was equally far gone. I insisted that we quit, and I cashed in my $6,000." Joe's eyes lit up and said,"I threw that bum out of here and you know what he did? He hugged me and kissed me and said thank you!" I asked him about Mr. X and Joe said that he was a known player and let Mr. X play on. Thorp was backed off by Joe instead of "insisting that we quit" as written in "Beat The Dealer." It was surreal spending that afternoon with a part of blackjack history. To hear the untold story of Thorp's adventure at Harvey's with the casino manager who we both beat under his nose.

My Ten Count is an upgrade of Thorp's Ten Count. The non-tens(except aces) are +1, tens are -2. The aces are side counted to calculate blackjack frequencies and perfect insurance. With more tens( plus count ) and aces left, the chances of receiving blackjacks increase. 8's and 9's are also side counted for basic strategy deviations. I managed to be barred all over Nevada using my method. Betting with my head, not over it. You can brag to your friends and family about the fear the casinos will have of you if you play perfect. If six 7's, 8's, or 9's and three 2-6's with four face cards are played at a heads up single deck game, we have the advantage. The chance of being dealt a blackjack rises to 6.47% instead of the 4.83% off the top. The hi-lo count is -1 and the eye in the sky will think we are nuts to make a big bet. I employed this method in the 90's at Reno and Lake Tahoe. Played untouched for seven years. The pit and eye thought I was a long term loser. I laughed all the way to the bank.

I use combinatorial analysis and a calculator which is more accurate than computer sims. Using subsets really shows the power of my Ten Count over hi-lo. For example, we are playing two hands heads up at single deck. Our first hand is A,A and the second is A,9. The dealer shows an ace and asks for insurance. The hi-lo count is -4, not an insurable count. My Ten Count differs because taking insurance is a positive expectation event in this situation. +1 with four aces gone with less than 1/4 deck played takes about +3.5 and above to gain the insurance advantage. 4 aces and +1 equals +5, we take the insurance while the hi-lo counter misses out and is clueless. Here is an another example. At double deck with 26 cards(1/2 deck)played, the count is -10 with 6 aces played and no 8,9's have come out. We have 14-16 vs 7,8 for the dealer. Basic Strategy says to hit, so the hi-lo sheep hit and go bust. My Ten Count says stay because we will bust more, leaving the dealer to bust. Asymmetry of 8,9's with a dealer 7,8 upcard produces more stiffs for the dealer. We buck the tide by standing on 14-16 vs 7,8 leaving the dealer to bust more often. To understand more about the imbalance of cards read Chapter 10 of "Playing Blackjack To Win" by Baldwin, Cantey, Maisel, McDermott. My Ten Count using side counts arguably displaces the Hi-OptII count by Lance Humble as the best count ever.

What about shuffle tracking? If all the dealers shuffle the cards in the exact manner, then yes, the 6 deck shoe can be shuffle tracked. You map out the shuffle and practice it at home. First turn 39 cards over at the bottom. Track where they end up at the end of the shuffle. Then do the next 39 cards and repeat to the last 39 cards. You will know where the slugs of tens and aces are in every shoe. The six deck shuffle at the Bellagio is an example. They say "What Happens In Vegas, Stays in Vegas." Not in this article.

My Ten Count dominates because it takes advantage of asymmetry situations from the side counting of aces, 8's, and 9's. Combinatorial analysis with subsets and a calculator was needed to confirm its power. Blackjack computer simulation is insufficient. The casino executives and book/sim sellers who read this will wrongly say that my Ten Count is very weak, very weak, you who do not drink the casino Kool-Aid will dominate. The hi-lo count is endorsed by "Da Man" or the casino industry. Do they have our interests at heart? No way! I got away with fooling Reno/Tahoe for 7 years in the 90's because of the difference of my blackjack count from hi-lo and other counts.

In January 1997, I was barred from playing 21 after winning 4K at the New York-New York six deck game in Las Vegas. I thought the 4K win would be peanuts. I assumed Vegas was a class town and winning a few thousand wouldn't ruffle any feathers. I played for 13 straight hours spreading $25-$300. They kept giving me free beer. I was having a good time and was polite. I worked my tail off at the post office and did not expect harrassment from Las Vegas casinos for just counting. Like they say, "Out of the frying pan, into the fire." My picture was faxed to every major casino property surveillance department throughout the Surveillance Information Network (SIN for short) in Nevada. My picture is also in every Facial Recognition Software on the Strip. In the commercials for the World Series Of Poker, Gary Loveman(CEO of Harrah's Entertainment) states, " Bet with your head, not over it and gamble responsibly." It is sort of like the Phillip Morris commercials discouraging smoking. My blackjack method flies in the face of conventional blackjack advantage thinking. So if I can't play on a regular basis, others like you can carry the torch. My new YouTube double deck video should give you the feeling of the strength of this count http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLtT8fzQsTc&feature=channel_page
can you give to me samples played card 1deck
wher hi -lo show -4 and yors count +1 some tames .
samples 2,k,4,7,q,a rezults hi -lo -1 hi op2 -0
 

Cherry7Up

Well-Known Member
#10
JSTAT said:
What about shuffle tracking? If all the dealers shuffle the cards in the exact manner, then yes, the 6 deck shoe can be shuffle tracked. You map out the shuffle and practice it at home. First turn 39 cards over at the bottom. Track where they end up at the end of the shuffle. Then do the next 39 cards and repeat to the last 39 cards. You will know where the slugs of tens and aces are in every shoe. The six deck shuffle at ****** is an example. They say "What Happens In Vegas, Stays in Vegas." Not in this article.
Post should be edited to remove the house name--I understand houses with allegedly exploitable shuffles are not to be named publicly.
 

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#11
Cherry7Up said:
Post should be edited to remove the house name--I understand houses with allegedly exploitable shuffles are not to be named publicly.
It's no more exploitable than anywhere else on the strip, don't worry about it. The info is not credible.
 
#12
KOLAN said:
can you give to me samples played card 1deck
wher hi -lo show -4 and yors count +1 some tames .
samples 2,k,4,7,q,a rezults hi -lo -1 hi op2 -0
Suppose we split 8,8 vs 5 on the first hand heads up. We nail two nines on each and stand. Dealer flips over ten and busts with another ten. The hi-lo count is -1 and the Ten Count is +1. The calculated blackjack frequency for the next hand is 45x44=1980. 1980 divided by 56 (14 tens left X 4aces left) equals 35.357. Divide by two to get the blackjack frequency of 17.678. We will get a snapper every 17.678 hands instead of the 20.7 off the top. Or 5.65% of the time instead of 4.83% We turned a hi-lo negative into a positive situation with the upgraded Ten Count KOLAN. We will have the advantage in Wendover, NV and Barona near San Diego playing single deck in this scenario. Every little bit counts to win at 21.

JSTAT
 
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johndoe

Well-Known Member
#14
JSTAT said:
Suppose we split 8,8 vs 5 on the first hand heads up. We nail two nines on each and stand. Dealer flips over ten and busts with another ten. The hi-lo count is -3 and the Ten Count is +1.
With two 8's, two 9's, two 10's, and a 5 showing, the hi-lo count is -1, not -3. Truly he is a counting master. :laugh:
 
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#16
daddybo said:
Why don't you just side count aces??
I do side count the aces. Sometimes too many tens are played to lower the blackjack frequencies beyond an advantage situation. Tens and aces are also counted for perfect insurance. Also, a plus count with more aces than normal left is a good thing.

JSTAT
 

KOLAN

Well-Known Member
#18
JSTAT said:
Suppose we split 8,8 vs 5 on the first hand heads up. We nail two nines on each and stand. Dealer flips over ten and busts with another ten. The hi-lo count is -3 and the Ten Count is +1. The calculated blackjack frequency for the next hand is 45x44=1980. 1980 divided by 56 (14 tens left X 4aces left) equals 35.357. Divide by two to get the blackjack frequency of 17.678. We will get a snapper every 17.678 hands instead of the 20.7 off the top. Or 5.65% of the time instead of 4.83% We turned a hi-lo negative into a positive situation with the upgraded Ten Count KOLAN. Every little bit counts to win at 21.
thanks. i know it is not bet count bet still only1-2% adventage.
 
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Canceler

Well-Known Member
#20
Confusion abounds...

itakeyourmoney said:
Just to clarify, my comments about simulations being rubbish were sarcastic.
Actually, I thought you were putting down combinatorial analysis, but I know you wouldn't really be that silly. :)
 
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