Aponte Thread Closed...

[zengrifter]

Death to jack-booted thread closers!

The Aponte thread set a viewer record for BJINFO News Forum - fastest viewer count in 3-days.

Disturbing to see intervention of open-free communication at BJINFO. Mike is a "public person" and as such, discussions can and should get personal IF that is where the discussion leads.

Suddenly we have more censorship here than on Faux Noise Network?

What next? Locking threads at ZenZone because the discussion gets too personal about a particular public person, like say Barak Obama? Zig Heil! zg

[jack,jackson]

IC&T, quit being a drone and let the cards, fall where they lie, and stop locking-up unneccesary threads. It was just getting interesting and you locked it up. Nobody was threating anybody? Rock and Roll Man.

[shadroch]

Moderators should moderate, not censor. Closing that thread was poor judgement.

[KenSmith]

Sometimes it is easier to just close the thread than it is to clean up the crud that is leading it off-topic. If you'll all stay civil this won't be necessary. Disagree all you want, but name-calling is pretty pointless here. If you have more to say about Aponte's decision, then by all means, start another thread. We'll try again.

[RJT]

I'll side with Ken on this one - whilst i think the closing of that thread was premature as it hadn't actually got to the offensive level, it was clearly decending that way fast and based on historical posting records when certain individuals get involved in certain topics (including myself) the resulting conversation serves only to create negative feelings on the board and create a mess for the mods to clean up.
Free speech extends only as far as your location - i certainly wouldn't wouldn't go into a friend's house and start calling their wife derogitory names or insulting their parenting - my free speech is limited by my location and their rights and rightly so. Your free speech here extends only as far as Ken's good will.

RJT.

[zengrifter]

Okay, either IC&T unlocks the prior thread or continue any discussion that may be left onto this thread.

I for one did not see any degradation into "crud" in the prior thread except for the overly defensive reaction by one or two to my actually posting the information to begin with.

I will say that Bill Zender has not been successful 'much' in convincing casino ops to deal deeper (a few examples like Suncoast and El Cortez come to mind).

Aponte's rationalization (spin?) that he's teaching that too may lack merit because: a) the execs taking the course have little or no say, and b) they may not reflect much on that depending on how little effort Mike puts into making that point with time-motion studies and sim results.

Mike would be much less influential than Zender to affect the penetration protocol because unlike Zender Mike will still be percieved as "the enemy" and less trustworthy.

Bill has told me that his little success in getting casinos to deal deeper is due to the variance that a casino can experience and no decision maker wants to be in the position of opting for deeper pene and than suffering a down-flux and having it look like its related to the deeper deal decision.

IC&T, just merge this thread onto the prior and let the discussion, whats left of it, resume, please. zg

[iCountNTrack]

I don't just like to lock threads for no reason. But when people start calling each other "retards" and "idiots", this is a clear indication that the quality of the discussion is degrading exponentially. i also did double check with Sonny regarding that decision and he supported my decision.
Sorry, i won't unlock the thread nor merge it with this one. As Ken said you are by all means free to start a new thread about Aponte's decision.

Cheers,

iCountNTrack

[RJT]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

Okay, either IC&T unlocks the prior thread or continue any discussion that may be left onto this thread.

I for one did not see any degradation into "crud" in the prior thread except for the overly defensive reaction by one or two to my actually posting the information to begin with.

I will say that Bill Zender has not been successful 'much' in convincing casino ops to deal deeper (a few examples like Suncoast and El Cortez come to mind).

Aponte's rationalization (spin?) that he's teaching that too may lack merit because: a) the execs taking the course have little or no say, and b) they may not reflect much on that depending on how little effort Mike puts into making that point with time-motion studies and sim results.

Mike would be much less influential than Zender to affect the penetration protocol because unlike Zender Mike will still be percieved as "the enemy" and less trustworthy.

Bill has told me that his little success in getting casinos to deal deeper is due to the variance that a casino can experience and no decision maker wants to be in the position of opting for deeper pene and than suffering a down-flux and having it look like its related to the deeper deal decision.

IC&T, just merge this thread onto the prior and let the discussion, whats left of it, resume, please. zg

My reaction was regarding your ridiculous reaction to mike getting rid of your link. Frankly your posts in that thread read like tabloid headlines and deserved as much credence. Whether you're willing to acknowledge it or not zg, you love kicking the hornets’ nest just to see them get angry, and the whole way you handled this topic shows that perfectly.
As to it - the freedom of your speech, or anyone else's at the site (or anywhere*) doesn't extend to antagonising or insulting other posters. Whilst you might not have been involved in any of that - other posters were rapidly heading that way. To save themselves more hassle than it’s worth the mods closed the thread when it looked to be going down that road. Pre-emptive? Perhaps. Reasonable decision? In their position - certainly. Get over it.

RJT.

* The over application of any intrinsic right ultimately leads to corruption of the very issue that the right is intended to protect. The freedom of speech is a perfect example of that, and hence is not a blanket protection to allow you to say whatever you like whenever you want to.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by iCountNTrack

I don't just like to lock threads for no reason. But when people start calling each other "retards" and "idiots", this is a clear indication that the quality of the discussion is degrading exponentially.
Anyway i did check with Sonny before making that decision.
Sorry, i won't unlock the thread nor merge it with this one. As Ken said if you are by all means free to start a new thread about Aponte's decision.

Cheers,

iCountNTrack

Originally Posted by KenSmith

Sometimes it is easier to just close the thread than it is to clean up the crud that is leading it off-topic. If you'll all stay civil this won't be necessary. Disagree all you want, but name-calling is pretty pointless here. If you have more to say about Aponte's decision, then by all means, start another thread. We'll try again.

Ken, what's going on with the lock ups of threads? This ain't the first time...It's the 2nd time, but I do give you credit for suggesting us to restart the locked up thread. Apropos, I got locked out too from this thread http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...t=14634&page=2. In an attempt to share my zone time converter with Mr. Daddybo, I made a reply in response to this post http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=14648, but the thread was locked up. So I restarted the thread on the Announcements Board with this post
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...166#post140166 It was busted & removed from that Announcements Board (hmm.... I wondered why it was removed eventhough it was directly related to the Kevin Blackwood chat?). I hope that there'll be no 3rd thru 99th times in locking ups from now on because I get some things better to do than fighting & addressing the lockups. As the old sayings go... 2 HEADS are better than ONE...Locking up the threads equate to chopping off all heads... & leaving guys with nobody to consult with, and that's really bad!

[daddybo]

Originally Posted by RJT

* The over application of any intrinsic right ultimately leads to corruption of the very issue that the right is intended to protect. The freedom of speech is a perfect example of that, and hence is not a blanket protection to allow you to say whatever you like whenever you want to.

Members have intrinsic rights?