Blackjack and Card Counting Forums - BlackjackInfo.com

  #11  
Old January 15th, 2011, 04:24 PM
rwbbj rwbbj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
Zg means risk of ruin or odds of losing it all.
Thanks Maestro.

Umm...I would rather choose to invest more money and increase my capital if that would better assist in the chance of having ANY impact on my "R.O.I". If having a bigger initial B.R would help secure the chances of increasing my odds of NOT LOSING money, but breaking even at worst case scenario, I would rather do that!

I'll put it like this, if $100.00 bucks is going to substantially decrease my chances of breaking even or possibly losing money, I would prefer to toss in another hundred or two if it would make a substantial difference at breaking even or making a bit of extra money!

Also, Im still looking for a site that has the same Bonus parameters @ .50cents a hand....OR something close to it. I'll let you know what I'm able to come up with!

Thanks
~rwbbj~
  #12  
Old June 7th, 2011, 12:47 AM
blacksworn blacksworn is offline
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Originally Posted by rwbbj View Post
The simplest is a cashable bonus with a wagering requirement. For example, a casino might offer a $200 sign-up bonus with a 25x bonus wagering requirement. The total wagering requirement is $200x25 = $5000. This $5000 wagering requirement can be done in 5000 $1 bets, 500 $10 bets, 50 $100 bets, or any other combination. A player is expected to lose an average of ~0.5% of their wager playing blackjack, so expected loss over the $5000 wagering is $5000x0.5% = $25. This leaves $175 of the $200 bonus as cashable profit.

I came across this info on another site in which someone here had kindly posted the link on another thread of mine. So looks like I'm answering my own question this time, I guess that means I'm starting to make some positive headway!
rwbbj
This Info Looks like its straight from the Casinos them self... casino propaganda or wat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwbbj View Post
The total wagering requirement is $200x25 = $5000. rwbbj
Most Casinos have Deposit + Bonus Multiplied by wagering Requirement.

so If 200 deposit and 200 Bonus multiplied by 25 wagering
400 X 25 = 10,000/-
BlackJack WR Game Percentage is Mostly 10%
so 10,000 WR becomes 10,000X10=100k and not 5k

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwbbj View Post
A player is expected to lose an average of ~0.5% of their wager playing blackjack, so expected loss over the $5000 wagering is $5000x0.5% = $25. This leaves $175 of the $200 bonus as cashable profit.rwbbj
BlackJack WR Game Percentage is Mostly 10%

Expected loss = ((Deposit + Bonus) x Wagering requirement x (100 / Game %)) x House edge.

The Blackjack has (House edge is 0.5% or 0.005), if you’ve received a 100% match bonus of $200

your expected loss is:
((200+200) x 25 x (100 / 10)) x 0.005 =500

so the expected loss is now $500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwbbj View Post
This leaves $175 of the $200 bonus as cashable profit.rwbbj
Oooops


Last edited by blacksworn; June 7th, 2011 at 12:57 AM.
  #13  
Old June 7th, 2011, 01:11 AM
MangoJ MangoJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksworn View Post
This Info Looks like its straight from the Casinos them self... casino propaganda or wat?

Not sure what you're saying. The info is correct, but be aware that each bonus has different terms. A 25xB is rare to find these, especially on blackjack. However 25xB is not impossible, I just played such a bonus last month.
  #14  
Old June 7th, 2011, 01:41 AM
blacksworn blacksworn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoJ View Post
Not sure what you're saying. The info is correct, but be aware that each bonus has different terms. A 25xB is rare to find these, especially on blackjack. However 25xB is not impossible, I just played such a bonus last month.

so even if u find 25 X B so lets say 200 bonus

25X200 = 5000
BlackJack WR Game Percentage is Mostly 10%

5000X10= 50,000 WR

so even if WR is 25XB ... total WR will be =50,000 and not 5k

$50,000x0.5% = $250

expected loss is still $250 and not $25.

so to clear ur Bonus of 200 ... u have expected loss of $250 and not $25.

so the game % contributing to WR is the Key ....

so only when u find bonus with Blackjack Game % towards WR is 100% ... its +ev.
MangoJ hope u understand what i mean

If u find any BlackJack Bonus with WR 25 X with Game 100% towards WR. iTs +ev ... otherwise .... is not worth it

If u find one such Bonus PLease Post Here ... Thanks MangoJ
  #15  
Old June 7th, 2011, 01:52 AM
RJT RJT is offline
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Blacksworn - this persistence with the "blackjack counts 10%" rule is becoming a bit boring. Some online casinos use this rule, far from all of them. If you don't like it, go play at a different casino. I recommended a great resource to help you find these just the other day - http://www.beatingbonuses.com. And truthfully, if you learn how to attack bonuses properly - or use games other than blackjack - even when a bonus does have this rule it doesn't alway have a dramatic impact on EV.

RJT.
  #16  
Old June 7th, 2011, 01:54 AM
RJT RJT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksworn View Post

If u find any BlackJack Bonus with WR 25 X with Game 100% towards WR. iTs +ev ... otherwise .... is not worth it

If u find one such Bonus PLease Post Here ... Thanks MangoJ
See my post above ^^

Also, nobody who's been playing bonuses for money for any length of time is going to post good offers as it just encourages loads of bonus whores to pile in and the bonus gets shut down very quickly. Not a good idea.

RJT.
  #17  
Old June 7th, 2011, 02:00 AM
blacksworn blacksworn is offline
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Ty RJT
  #18  
Old June 7th, 2011, 12:08 PM
MangoJ MangoJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksworn View Post
so even if u find 25 X B so lets say 200 bonus

25X200 = 5000
BlackJack WR Game Percentage is Mostly 10%
Learn to think. Your rules with 10% are a 250xB bonus.

Further, if you get a 50% deposit bonus, and need to play deposit + bonus 25 times, it is a 75xB bonus. If blackjack counts 20%, it is 375xB.

Don't use numbers for comparison, which are not comparable. Yes, a 250xB bonus sucks, and other games are much more favorable if you can get a 25xB bonus.
  #19  
Old June 8th, 2011, 12:26 AM
blacksworn blacksworn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwbbj View Post
The simplest is a cashable bonus with a wagering requirement. For example, a casino might offer a $200 sign-up bonus with a 25x bonus wagering requirement. The total wagering requirement is $200x25 = $5000. This $5000 wagering requirement can be done in 5000 $1 bets, 500 $10 bets, 50 $100 bets, or any other combination. A player is expected to lose an average of ~0.5% of their wager playing blackjack, so expected loss over the $5000 wagering is $5000x0.5% = $25. This leaves $175 of the $200 bonus as cashable profit.
rwbbj
Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoJ View Post
Not sure what you're saying. The info is correct, but be aware that each bonus has different terms. A 25xB is rare to find these, especially on blackjack. However 25xB is not impossible, I just played such a bonus last month.
Yes Casinos have different T & C for Bonuses ... some are Very Good while others are Bad deal! some have lower WR or Higher WR ... some Have Higher Game% to WR for BlackJack ... some have Lower! ... some bonus are cashable ... some Bonus are sticky and so on .... but we will not discuss .... Bonus Deals here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwbbj View Post
A player is expected to lose an average of ~0.5% of their wager playing blackjack, so expected loss over the $5000 wagering is $5000x0.5% = $25. This leaves $175 of the $200 bonus as cashable profit.rwbbj
Is this statement Fair .... ?
Ty RJT .... I learn it from U
what i want to stress is that if we don't Include Game% Contributing to WR ... then the above statement is simply misleading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJT View Post
if you read further into the fine print, you'll see that all versions of Blackjack only count for 10% of their wagering, so that 20k is now 200k.
RJT.
BIngo

(I know RJT ... when u made this statement ... u r only referring to one particular Casino).

so when we calculate expected loss ... if Game% Contribution to WR ( Maybe 10% 20% 50% or even 100% ) is not taken into account for a particular Bonus WR.
Then the statement is Very Dangerous.

Last edited by blacksworn; June 8th, 2011 at 12:34 AM.
  #20  
Old June 8th, 2011, 04:09 AM
MangoJ MangoJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksworn View Post
so when we calculate expected loss ... if Game% Contribution to WR ( Maybe 10% 20% 50% or even 100% ) is not taken into account for a particular Bonus WR.
Then the statement is Very Dangerous.
Precisely. You need to account for game contribution. Also, you need to account for total wagering. i.e if you need to wager the bonus, the deposit or both a number of times.

The appropriate "index" is the total wagering divided by the expected loss (or bonus amount for a fixed game). If the bonus amount or maximum loss is significant to your bankroll, you also need to account for variance. If the wagering amount is massive, you also need to figure out your expected win per hour of "work". Then adjust to a betsize you are comfortable with, with respect to win per hour and risk.

If blackjack is allowed, I would not play anything above wagering 100 times bonus, which still leaves you with a 0.5% advantage.
 

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