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  #11  
Old October 6th, 2011, 05:01 PM
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Default definition & practice

Yes, if you look up the simple definition of Socialism its government ownership of production.

Now, what is a characteristic of European Socialism? Large Social programs. So in practice when one mentions Socialism large Social programs are included.

An in depth definition of Socialism includes Communism & Social Democracy whose ideology is social programs.

Are you guys going to deny that Europe has large social programs? That many of the political parties are Socialist? With Socialist governments?

If the government has so much control over industry through regulations, Cronieism & "social" justice even without ownership then how can you not say its Socialism?
  #12  
Old October 6th, 2011, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by QFIT View Post
OK, one guy knows. Ownership and control of the means of production. Michelle Bachmann claims that Obama turned 50% of the economy into Socialism. The actual number is exactly zero percent. And, he is planning the privitization of space launches. And his jobs plan, which people are calling socialist, calls for jobs banks to be used by private companies to hire workers in the private sector. And the health plan will not only substantially increase private health industries, but will reduce reliance on public hospitals, where the uninsured have to go. And he is reducing No Child Left Behind, that dramtically increased the Dept. of Educ. budget under the previous administration, and for the first time inserted the Fed govt in state eductional systems. Before that, the Dept of Educ mostly handled loan programs, student grants and statistical studies. Look at the monthly job stats. Gov't employees have been dropping monthly and private employment increasing.
Ummm
The feds determine what & how much Medicaid covers.
So this is not a social program? Not involved in control?
  #13  
Old October 6th, 2011, 05:54 PM
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Default No matter

In the end our crushing debt, trade imbalance and unemployment-underemployment will do us in, say in the next 15 years. (Not to even mention the corruption and bribery, on a huge scale, of the House and Senate.)

The U.S. as we know it is slipping away fast.

CP
  #14  
Old October 6th, 2011, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by blackjack avenger View Post
Perhaps crony socialist?
Fluctuating between crony socialism and crony fascism. zg
  #15  
Old October 6th, 2011, 06:09 PM
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This is the problem. People think Europe is socialist. So, they redefine, in their minds, the concept of socialism to fit parts of some systems in some European countries, at some periods of time. Fact is, the heads of state in Britain, Sweden, France, Italy, and some other European countries are rightists.

Life ain't that simple. Socialism is Socialism. What Obama is doing ain't close. Ain't even a distant relative.

We have to stop using words like Socialism, Communism, death panels, and any number of other “labels” that are tossed around with no respect for the actual meaning of the words in an attempt to stop thinking by use of charged words. I don’t give a damn what an idea is called. If it is a good idea, let’s do it. Our country is now completely frozen as some in the Congress label any idea that comes from Obama, EVEN if it is an idea they originally had or supported, as socialist, because they do not want to see him succeed. We have no way out of this mess until Congress stops acting in such an absurd manner.

And no, Medicaid is insurance, not socialism. Auto insurance is mandated too. Some 90-year old guy with no insurance drove into the side of my car at five miles an hour, and continued driving through all three side panels, and then another 100 feet before he could halt his 5MPH run. My insurance company said to not report it because they would just raise my rates. I want REAL insurance. Isn't human life more important than a car's side panels?
  #16  
Old October 6th, 2011, 06:30 PM
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Would you people stop the politic threads? You have no idea what Socialism is.
Sure I know what it is, it's the organized will of the nation.

  #17  
Old October 6th, 2011, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by QFIT View Post
This is the problem. People think Europe is socialist. So, they redefine, in their minds, the concept of socialism to fit parts of some systems in some European countries, at some periods of time. Fact is, the heads of state in Britain, Sweden, France, Italy, and some other European countries are rightists.

Life ain't that simple. Socialism is Socialism. What Obama is doing ain't close. Ain't even a distant relative.

We have to stop using words like Socialism, Communism, death panels, and any number of other “labels” that are tossed around with no respect for the actual meaning of the words in an attempt to stop thinking by use of charged words. I don’t give a damn what an idea is called. If it is a good idea, let’s do it. Our country is now completely frozen as some in the Congress label any idea that comes from Obama, EVEN if it is an idea they originally had or supported, as socialist, because they do not want to see him succeed. We have no way out of this mess until Congress stops acting in such an absurd manner.

And no, Medicaid is insurance, not socialism. Auto insurance is mandated too. Some 90-year old guy with no insurance drove into the side of my car at five miles an hour, and continued driving through all three side panels, and then another 100 feet before he could halt his 5MPH run. My insurance company said to not report it because they would just raise my rates. I want REAL insurance. Isn't human life more important than a car's side panels?
Come on Qfit. We have all seen this before. The new President shows what he is about for 2 years and then tries to be the opposite during the 2 years prior to his reelection bid so, if he wins, he can make the first 2 years he is trying to make everyone forget look like the good old days as he serves a lame duck Presidency. As a lame duck President's don't have to worry about the consequences of their actions.
  #18  
Old October 6th, 2011, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack_Black View Post
economic system in which the means of production are state owned?
Quote:
Originally Posted by QFIT View Post
OK, one guy knows. Ownership and control of the means of production.
Nope wrong. This definition of socialism is not necessary and sufficient. Many words have a nebulous quality. I can just as easily pull out the definition of state socialism, as below, from the same website Jack Black got his definition.

"State socialism is an economic system with limited socialist characteristics, such as public ownership of major industries, remedial measures to benefit the working class, and a gradual process of developing socialism through government policy."

The US can definitely be said to be engaged with state socialism. No one was saying we're a full blown socialist country, we have a mix of capitalism and some socialist characteristics. And of course our dear leader Obama is trying his best to add more socialist policies to our country.
  #19  
Old October 6th, 2011, 07:15 PM
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Nope wrong. This definition of socialism is not necessary and sufficient. Many words have a nebulous quality. I can just as easily pull out the definition of state socialism, as below, from the same website Jack Black got his definition.

"State socialism is an economic system with limited socialist characteristics, such as public ownership of major industries, remedial measures to benefit the working class, and a gradual process of developing socialism through government policy."

The US can definitely be said to be engaged with state socialism. No one was saying we're a full blown socialist country, we have a mix of capitalism and some socialist characteristics. And of course our dear leader Obama is trying his best to add more socialist policies to our country.
Sorry, Jack and I are using the definition given by the inventors of socialism. You are the one pulling a def off of some website. I have given examples of how Obama is anti-socialist. You just claim he's a socialist, with no examples.

We are in a terrible mess. But, so many Rep and TP leaders have said that their number one priority is to get rid of Obama. Not increase employment. Not improve the economy. Their number one priority is to throw out Obama. And, they continue to use charged terms like socialism, communism, death panels.

We need to stop using labels and actually examine whether policies make sense. Labels simply stop discussion. Eric Cantor, previously for all tax cuts, is now against tax cuts for the middle class proposed by Obama because he now claims tax cuts for the middle class don't help the economy. He actually said only tax cuts for the rich help the economy. No one in the TP even considers the jobs plan, because Obama proposed it and therefore it must be evil since he is an evil, illegal alien, Muslim, socialist. I have never seen the political situation so dire. Absolutely nothing Obama proposes is accepted, even if it is what the Reps proposed themselves in the past.
 

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