Question on ratholing

[paddywhack]

Originally Posted by Tarzan

Two things come to mind with regard to "ratholing" chips. One is that if you are a successful player it becomes impossible to rathole enough chips to show a loss in the overall. Another is something that you would pick up from reading what I wrote about the pit supervisor pinning those chips on someone because they are supposed to be accounting for them all.

A lot depends on your win rate but if, for example, your ev is $50-75/hr and you can pocket 1x-2x your ev per hour, both when winning and losing, you will not, over time, show an on-paper win. I can almost guarantee that.

Get into higher ev's and then you start having to pocket stacks of green or else black. Now it's a horse of a different color.

If you do it enough, and well enough, it won't really matter if the PC credits you an occasional win you didn't deserve, they'll still have you as an overall loser.

[tthree]

Originally Posted by paddywhack

A lot depends on your win rate but if, for example, your ev is $50-75/hr and you can pocket 1x-2x your ev per hour, both when winning and losing, you will not, over time, show an on-paper win. I can almost guarantee that.

Get into higher ev's and then you start having to pocket stacks of green or else black. Now it's a horse of a different color.

If you do it enough, and well enough, it won't really matter if the PC credits you an occasional win you didn't deserve, they'll still have you as an overall loser.

Once a casino pegs you as a ratholer, you are assigned every unaccounted for chip every time you play. They have to assign them to someone and they know you have an unidentified number of chips in your pocket so they assign them to you. The best you can hope for after that is they only assign you what is in your pocket. You will only log bigger than actual or actual wins after that.

[Wookets]

Originally Posted by tthree

Once a casino pegs you as a ratholer...

This is a lot harder for them to do than you'd think, especially when the player is unrated (which he/she should generally be doing if they're a consistent winner). Pocketing 1X your EV per hour is very manageable and can go easily unnoticed.

There are other ways to manufacture losses as well; just be creative.

[tthree]

Originally Posted by Wookets

This is a lot harder for them to do than you'd think, especially when the player is unrated (which he/she should generally be doing if they're a consistent winner). Pocketing 1X your EV per hour is very manageable and can go easily unnoticed.

There are other ways to manufacture losses as well; just be creative.

I have my ways but I try to avoid ratholing. My ways are much more creative and the casino is happy to see me.

[bigplayer]

Originally Posted by ringlejames

I beg to differ. My FIRST TRIP EVER, I being a rather good player from the get go, ratholed like a you know what, squirreled chips away in my pocket, didn't cash out, kept literally hoards of chips in my room. stacks and stacks of red and a modest stack of greens.Pit would not leave me alone. My id was expired, they refused to let me cash out, I kept playing though. when I did color up all I had, I got a 15 minute wait to color up. Went up to a window with my friend Cashed out and showed them my expired id, and had to wait another ten while they confirmed with the pit the color up and cash out. Pit bosses had their eyes on me like hawks as well.

Now I just color up get with their system, cash out everything during the session and play by their system. Much smoother now a days.

I beg to differ with your differing with Sonny. His post is very very good advice. You might be a "rather good player from the get go" but your casino comportment must be lacking for them to require ID for you to cash out.

In short...

1. You keep chips to have betting power that doesn't require buy-ins with cash
2. You avoid cashing out immediately so they can't match your cash-out to a session result and don't flag your cashing out a smaller amount than your session win as a suspicious activity.
3. You cashout in increments smaller than $3000 (preferably smaller than $2500) so that no ID or players card is required. If your casino is a rare tiny one that requires ID or players card for smaller amounts than $2500 then you need to figure out what their limits are and stay below that OR just realize you won't be able to rathole very much.

The only thing I'll add to Sonny's great post is not to accept high denomination chips and only rathole chips the casino does not track closely. You can even rathole black chips in certain instances if someone comes to your table with black you can palm a few off when they arrive and the new player will get credited with having them. I've even ratholed purple chips in rare instances.

[flyingwind]

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