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  #1  
Old December 11th, 2011, 12:09 PM
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jaygruden jaygruden is offline
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Default 5 Day East Coast Tour and a Slight Rant..

Spent 5 consecutive days on a walk-about through East Coast stores while traveling on business. When I wasn't working, eating or sleeping; I was playing BJ. I didn't fair too well overall but did gain for myself some valuable first hand information about the relative quality of games and conditions at different stores:

Day 1: PA store where you ride slides, swings, merry go round and may have a picnic: 6D - $15 & $25 tables in East wing and $25, $50, $100 tables in West wing
session 1: Swing shift - East wing = +17 units - 6D, pen varied widely ranging btwn 66-83% - wonged out of poor counts and poor pen. No heat.
session 2: grave yard shift - West wing = +10 units - 6D, pen fairly consistent at 75%-80% - mild heat.

Day 2: Same store:
session 1 - Day shift - West wing = -32 units - 6D, pen ave 75% - Hit one huge plus count shoe and lost many max bets - nothing went my way - no heat - looked like the lovable loser to the pit, i'm sure.
session 2 - Day shift - East wing = +41 units - 6D, pen ranged from 75-83% - caught several neg shoes and kept finding reasons to wong out, then finally caught one great shoe - went to KO+10 - I got max bet out 8/9 times, hit a max bj, and a few doubles. Got some heat from pit - was hovering me for the last half of the shoe. no phone calls but typing notes furiously in computer.
session 3 - AC - Suntan lotion store - 6D, S17 @ $25, 8D, H17 @ $10, HL room - 6D, S17 @ $100.
Swing shift = +48 Units - 6D, S17, pen ave 75%, hit 2 neg shoes then one great one. Count got as high as KO+12. Got max bet out there 10-12x & won about 70% of them. Hit a max BJ, and max splits/doubles. mild heat from pit but not as much as I thought given the bet spread and +var on the shoe.

Day 3 -
Session 1
- AC - Suntan lotion store - graveyard shift = +2 units - 6D, S17, 75-83% pen. Up and down whole session - probably played one shoe too many as I started getting heat from pit and security suit came up behind me watching my play intently. I left shortly after.
session 2 - The First Ever AC store - Swing shift - +11 units - on 8D game, S17, pen 75% with main dealer & 87% with relief. Wonged out alot until relief came back and those were only good shoes. The only 2 6D games they have here were in the HL room and both $100 min tables. No heat. Other games - 8D, H17 @ $5 & $10 & $25.
Session 3 - At the store formerly known as Paris - Swing shift = -29 units. 6D, S17, pen was extremely poor all over the place. It cost me a lot of units just shopping around to find a dealer with decent pen. most dealers are at 58% and it's obviously being stressed to use the notch on the shoe. I found only one relief dealer who was giving good pen (80-87%) and tried to follow as much as I could without being obvious. I couldn't even win on those shoes though. They have a "HL" area with a 6D, S17 @ $25 and another at $100 pen was just as poor on those games. The 6D, S17 on the floor were all at $10. The other games were all H17 games at $5/$10. There is no heat here at all, but with such poor pen there is no need for heat. This place was dead. It looks like there are on their way out of business. A lot of empty tables. I couldn't even get to find out what kind of pen I would get until I sat down bc the dealers where standing there alone with cards spread across table. this is what cost me ev. to find out what the pen would be, i had to sit down and buy in too many times. it becomes suspicious if you leave a table heads up right after the cut so i'd end up playing several hands then wonging out to find another option. Won't be back here until/if I learn that pen improves.

Day 4 -
Session 1 -
Graveyard shift - Suntan lotion store - 6D, S17, 75-80% pen = -92 units. Variance was brutal. Got my @ss kicked at every turn of the card. Hit one great plus count with only me & another player at the table and he caught everything: bj, twenties, splits, doubles. He quadrupled his buy in on one shoe and I got nothing but stiffs & any time I caught a 20 the dealer pushed me and on my only bj...dealer has an Ace under the ten. On the 2-3 times the dealer did show a stiff, would catch a low card to pat the handd. I Varied between betting one and two hands and it made no difference. I either lost or tied on 10 max bets in a row. This session reminded me of how valuable surrender is in PA. Looking at your 15 vs ten and knowing that dealer has a ten in the hole and also knowing that if you hit you will bust is not a good feeling. I LOVE SURRENDER and was wishing I had it with some of those max bets out. I took a wood-shed beating and got a lot of heat over it too. PB hovering on my shoulder after 3rd re-buy.
Session 2 - day shift - Suntan lotion store - 6D, S17, 75-80% = -28 units. Got some decent counts but could not win. Same story, different day.

Day 5 - Session 1 - PA store with slides, swings, picnics and merry go rounds - East wing - swing shift - 6D = -32 units. Played a dealer with an incredibly consistent 87-93% pen and still could not win. Dealer caught damn near every good card and showed more 10's up than anyone I've seen. I had a lot of stiffs and the only reason I didn't fair worse was bc I surrendered a lot of max bets rather than lose the whole nut. No heat at all, so I kept playing thinking this has to turn at some point but to no avail. I finally had to leave bc I was getting tired and didn't want to make it worse.


Summary:
I ended the week down 56 units but it was the tale of 2 cities....

first 3 days - plus 97 units
last 2 days - minus 153 units

Regarding AC - This was my first time back here in a year and how the games have deteriorated. Although I only found the time to visit 3 stores, the game conditions were far from great. I see no reason to leave PA to play AC unless I have to be there for some other reason (like I was this trip for business). Since I play part time, I don't play enough to have to spread my play more than what I am able to do among the PA and DE stores.

This has been a bad month - I've dropped 212 units in the last 4 weeks. This represents 21% of my bankroll (of what it was before the month long slide).

Before this downturn I was winning 70% of my sessions. In the last month I have won on only 50% of my sessions and obviously the losses have outweighed the wins. It took 8 months to increase my br by 250% and in only 1 month I have lost 1/3 of those gains.

I know that I was well above EV for a long time so this is just things coming into balance but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

I think I need to start wonging in as I find that by the time I catch a good shoe I am already in the hole from playing too many neg counts so my wins are not being realized as big bc a significant portion are replacing session losses.......and yes....Avenger, I am resizing my fractional Kelly as soon as I'm done with this

I know this is the last day of this forum so I'd like to take this opportunity to say thank you to Ken, the mods and everyone here who has helped in my quest. I am down but not out.

Finally, Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.....

Jay
  #2  
Old December 11th, 2011, 12:15 PM
tthree tthree is offline
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When in AC just say no, there your N0 is a nono. Think other games than BJ.
  #3  
Old December 11th, 2011, 12:32 PM
Jacob Jacob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaygruden View Post
Spent 5 consecutive days on a walk-about through East Coast stores while traveling on business. When I wasn't working, eating or sleeping; I was playing BJ. I didn't fair too well overall but did gain for myself some valuable first hand information about the relative quality of games and conditions at different stores:

Day 1: PA store where you ride slides, swings, merry go round and may have a picnic: 6D - $15 & $25 tables in East wing and $25, $50, $100 tables in West wing
session 1: Swing shift - East wing = +17 units - 6D, pen varied widely ranging btwn 66-83% - wonged out of poor counts and poor pen. No heat.
session 2: grave yard shift - West wing = +10 units - 6D, pen fairly consistent at 75%-80% - mild heat.

Day 2: Same store:
session 1 - Day shift - West wing = -32 units - 6D, pen ave 75% - Hit one huge plus count shoe and lost many max bets - nothing went my way - no heat - looked like the lovable loser to the pit, i'm sure.
session 2 - Day shift - East wing = +41 units - 6D, pen ranged from 75-83% - caught several neg shoes and kept finding reasons to wong out, then finally caught one great shoe - went to KO+10 - I got max bet out 8/9 times, hit a max bj, and a few doubles. Got some heat from pit - was hovering me for the last half of the shoe. no phone calls but typing notes furiously in computer.
session 3 - AC - Suntan lotion store - 6D, S17 @ $25, 8D, H17 @ $10, HL room - 6D, S17 @ $100.
Swing shift = +48 Units - 6D, S17, pen ave 75%, hit 2 neg shoes then one great one. Count got as high as KO+12. Got max bet out there 10-12x & won about 70% of them. Hit a max BJ, and max splits/doubles. mild heat from pit but not as much as I thought given the bet spread and +var on the shoe.

Day 3 -
Session 1
- AC - Suntan lotion store - graveyard shift = +2 units - 6D, S17, 75-83% pen. Up and down whole session - probably played one shoe too many as I started getting heat from pit and security suit came up behind me watching my play intently. I left shortly after.
session 2 - The First Ever AC store - Swing shift - +11 units - on 8D game, S17, pen 75% with main dealer & 87% with relief. Wonged out alot until relief came back and those were only good shoes. The only 2 6D games they have here were in the HL room and both $100 min tables. No heat. Other games - 8D, H17 @ $5 & $10 & $25.
Session 3 - At the store formerly known as Paris - Swing shift = -29 units. 6D, S17, pen was extremely poor all over the place. It cost me a lot of units just shopping around to find a dealer with decent pen. most dealers are at 58% and it's obviously being stressed to use the notch on the shoe. I found only one relief dealer who was giving good pen (80-87%) and tried to follow as much as I could without being obvious. I couldn't even win on those shoes though. They have a "HL" area with a 6D, S17 @ $25 and another at $100 pen was just as poor on those games. The 6D, S17 on the floor were all at $10. The other games were all H17 games at $5/$10. There is no heat here at all, but with such poor pen there is no need for heat. This place was dead. It looks like there are on their way out of business. A lot of empty tables. I couldn't even get to find out what kind of pen I would get until I sat down bc the dealers where standing there alone with cards spread across table. this is what cost me ev. to find out what the pen would be, i had to sit down and buy in too many times. it becomes suspicious if you leave a table heads up right after the cut so i'd end up playing several hands then wonging out to find another option. Won't be back here until/if I learn that pen improves.

Day 4 -
Session 1 -
Graveyard shift - Suntan lotion store - 6D, S17, 75-80% pen = -92 units. Variance was brutal. Got my @ss kicked at every turn of the card. Hit one great plus count with only me & another player at the table and he caught everything: bj, twenties, splits, doubles. He quadrupled his buy in on one shoe and I got nothing but stiffs & any time I caught a 20 the dealer pushed me and on my only bj...dealer has an Ace under the ten. On the 2-3 times the dealer did show a stiff, would catch a low card to pat the handd. I Varied between betting one and two hands and it made no difference. I either lost or tied on 10 max bets in a row. This session reminded me of how valuable surrender is in PA. Looking at your 15 vs ten and knowing that dealer has a ten in the hole and also knowing that if you hit you will bust is not a good feeling. I LOVE SURRENDER and was wishing I had it with some of those max bets out. I took a wood-shed beating and got a lot of heat over it too. PB hovering on my shoulder after 3rd re-buy.
Session 2 - day shift - Suntan lotion store - 6D, S17, 75-80% = -28 units. Got some decent counts but could not win. Same story, different day.

Day 5 - Session 1 - PA store with slides, swings, picnics and merry go rounds - East wing - swing shift - 6D = -32 units. Played a dealer with an incredibly consistent 87-93% pen and still could not win. Dealer caught damn near every good card and showed more 10's up than anyone I've seen. I had a lot of stiffs and the only reason I didn't fair worse was bc I surrendered a lot of max bets rather than lose the whole nut. No heat at all, so I kept playing thinking this has to turn at some point but to no avail. I finally had to leave bc I was getting tired and didn't want to make it worse.


Summary:
I ended the week down 56 units but it was the tale of 2 cities....

first 3 days - plus 97 units
last 2 days - minus 153 units

Regarding AC - This was my first time back here in a year and how the games have deteriorated. Although I only found the time to visit 3 stores, the game conditions were far from great. I see no reason to leave PA to play AC unless I have to be there for some other reason (like I was this trip for business). Since I play part time, I don't play enough to have to spread my play more than what I am able to do among the PA and DE stores.

This has been a bad month - I've dropped 212 units in the last 4 weeks. This represents 21% of my bankroll (of what it was before the month long slide).

Before this downturn I was winning 70% of my sessions. In the last month I have won on only 50% of my sessions and obviously the losses have outweighed the wins. It took 8 months to increase my br by 250% and in only 1 month I have lost 1/3 of those gains.

I know that I was well above EV for a long time so this is just things coming into balance but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

I think I need to start wonging in as I find that by the time I catch a good shoe I am already in the hole from playing too many neg counts so my wins are not being realized as big bc a significant portion are replacing session losses.......and yes....Avenger, I am resizing my fractional Kelly as soon as I'm done with this

I know this is the last day of this forum so I'd like to take this opportunity to say thank you to Ken, the mods and everyone here who has helped in my quest. I am down but not out.

Finally, Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.....

Jay
Jay, thanks for your trip report. Merry Xmas.
  #4  
Old December 11th, 2011, 12:54 PM
BJgenius007 BJgenius007 is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaygruden View Post
Spent 5 consecutive days on a walk-about through East Coast stores while traveling on business. When I wasn't working, eating or sleeping; I was playing BJ. I didn't fair too well overall but did gain for myself some valuable first hand information about the relative quality of games and conditions at different stores:

Day 1: PA store where you ride slides, swings, merry go round and may have a picnic: 6D - $15 & $25 tables in East wing and $25, $50, $100 tables in West wing
session 1: Swing shift - East wing = +17 units - 6D, pen varied widely ranging btwn 66-83% - wonged out of poor counts and poor pen. No heat.
session 2: grave yard shift - West wing = +10 units - 6D, pen fairly consistent at 75%-80% - mild heat.

Day 2: Same store:
session 1 - Day shift - West wing = -32 units - 6D, pen ave 75% - Hit one huge plus count shoe and lost many max bets - nothing went my way - no heat - looked like the lovable loser to the pit, i'm sure.
session 2 - Day shift - East wing = +41 units - 6D, pen ranged from 75-83% - caught several neg shoes and kept finding reasons to wong out, then finally caught one great shoe - went to KO+10 - I got max bet out 8/9 times, hit a max bj, and a few doubles. Got some heat from pit - was hovering me for the last half of the shoe. no phone calls but typing notes furiously in computer.
session 3 - AC - Suntan lotion store - 6D, S17 @ $25, 8D, H17 @ $10, HL room - 6D, S17 @ $100.
Swing shift = +48 Units - 6D, S17, pen ave 75%, hit 2 neg shoes then one great one. Count got as high as KO+12. Got max bet out there 10-12x & won about 70% of them. Hit a max BJ, and max splits/doubles. mild heat from pit but not as much as I thought given the bet spread and +var on the shoe.

Day 3 -
Session 1
- AC - Suntan lotion store - graveyard shift = +2 units - 6D, S17, 75-83% pen. Up and down whole session - probably played one shoe too many as I started getting heat from pit and security suit came up behind me watching my play intently. I left shortly after.
session 2 - The First Ever AC store - Swing shift - +11 units - on 8D game, S17, pen 75% with main dealer & 87% with relief. Wonged out alot until relief came back and those were only good shoes. The only 2 6D games they have here were in the HL room and both $100 min tables. No heat. Other games - 8D, H17 @ $5 & $10 & $25.
Session 3 - At the store formerly known as Paris - Swing shift = -29 units. 6D, S17, pen was extremely poor all over the place. It cost me a lot of units just shopping around to find a dealer with decent pen. most dealers are at 58% and it's obviously being stressed to use the notch on the shoe. I found only one relief dealer who was giving good pen (80-87%) and tried to follow as much as I could without being obvious. I couldn't even win on those shoes though. They have a "HL" area with a 6D, S17 @ $25 and another at $100 pen was just as poor on those games. The 6D, S17 on the floor were all at $10. The other games were all H17 games at $5/$10. There is no heat here at all, but with such poor pen there is no need for heat. This place was dead. It looks like there are on their way out of business. A lot of empty tables. I couldn't even get to find out what kind of pen I would get until I sat down bc the dealers where standing there alone with cards spread across table. this is what cost me ev. to find out what the pen would be, i had to sit down and buy in too many times. it becomes suspicious if you leave a table heads up right after the cut so i'd end up playing several hands then wonging out to find another option. Won't be back here until/if I learn that pen improves.

Day 4 -
Session 1 -
Graveyard shift - Suntan lotion store - 6D, S17, 75-80% pen = -92 units. Variance was brutal. Got my @ss kicked at every turn of the card. Hit one great plus count with only me & another player at the table and he caught everything: bj, twenties, splits, doubles. He quadrupled his buy in on one shoe and I got nothing but stiffs & any time I caught a 20 the dealer pushed me and on my only bj...dealer has an Ace under the ten. On the 2-3 times the dealer did show a stiff, would catch a low card to pat the handd. I Varied between betting one and two hands and it made no difference. I either lost or tied on 10 max bets in a row. This session reminded me of how valuable surrender is in PA. Looking at your 15 vs ten and knowing that dealer has a ten in the hole and also knowing that if you hit you will bust is not a good feeling. I LOVE SURRENDER and was wishing I had it with some of those max bets out. I took a wood-shed beating and got a lot of heat over it too. PB hovering on my shoulder after 3rd re-buy.
Session 2 - day shift - Suntan lotion store - 6D, S17, 75-80% = -28 units. Got some decent counts but could not win. Same story, different day.

Day 5 - Session 1 - PA store with slides, swings, picnics and merry go rounds - East wing - swing shift - 6D = -32 units. Played a dealer with an incredibly consistent 87-93% pen and still could not win. Dealer caught damn near every good card and showed more 10's up than anyone I've seen. I had a lot of stiffs and the only reason I didn't fair worse was bc I surrendered a lot of max bets rather than lose the whole nut. No heat at all, so I kept playing thinking this has to turn at some point but to no avail. I finally had to leave bc I was getting tired and didn't want to make it worse.


Summary:
I ended the week down 56 units but it was the tale of 2 cities....

first 3 days - plus 97 units
last 2 days - minus 153 units

Regarding AC - This was my first time back here in a year and how the games have deteriorated. Although I only found the time to visit 3 stores, the game conditions were far from great. I see no reason to leave PA to play AC unless I have to be there for some other reason (like I was this trip for business). Since I play part time, I don't play enough to have to spread my play more than what I am able to do among the PA and DE stores.

This has been a bad month - I've dropped 212 units in the last 4 weeks. This represents 21% of my bankroll (of what it was before the month long slide).

Before this downturn I was winning 70% of my sessions. In the last month I have won on only 50% of my sessions and obviously the losses have outweighed the wins. It took 8 months to increase my br by 250% and in only 1 month I have lost 1/3 of those gains.

I know that I was well above EV for a long time so this is just things coming into balance but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

I think I need to start wonging in as I find that by the time I catch a good shoe I am already in the hole from playing too many neg counts so my wins are not being realized as big bc a significant portion are replacing session losses.......and yes....Avenger, I am resizing my fractional Kelly as soon as I'm done with this

I know this is the last day of this forum so I'd like to take this opportunity to say thank you to Ken, the mods and everyone here who has helped in my quest. I am down but not out.

Finally, Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.....

Jay
Merry Christmas.

And good bye!
  #5  
Old December 11th, 2011, 01:32 PM
blackjack avenger's Avatar
blackjack avenger blackjack avenger is offline
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Posts: 2,267
Default some points

Resizing down on losses is how one stays in the game if they cant add to bank.

A semi pro can afford to skip poor games. A pro because of playing more hours is probably less select.
  #6  
Old December 11th, 2011, 01:55 PM
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Friendo Friendo is offline
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Posts: 330
Default Session lengths?

Good information.

How long were you present on each shift in the PA store?

A, um ... close friend, of mine, is planning a visitation to the east coast, and would like to know for purposes of ... idle curiosity.
  #7  
Old December 11th, 2011, 03:18 PM
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jaygruden jaygruden is offline
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Friendo, email me for more details. I'd PM you but it will likely be shut down before you read it. Trying to be as vague as possible on here. jay_gruden@yahoo.com
  #8  
Old December 11th, 2011, 04:54 PM
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psyduck psyduck is offline
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Five days of BJ? Last time I had a two day vacation playing BJ and in the second day I could not wait to get back in my lab! Why? The long wait for high counts, the annoying ploppies, and the smoke expecially from stinking cigars! I cannot imagine how the pros deal with these every day.
  #9  
Old December 11th, 2011, 06:40 PM
jaygruden's Avatar
jaygruden jaygruden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psyduck View Post
Five days of BJ? Last time I had a two day vacation playing BJ and in the second day I could not wait to get back in my lab! Why? The long wait for high counts, the annoying ploppies, and the smoke expecially from stinking cigars! I cannot imagine how the pros deal with these every day.
I love the game but admit that it gets old after awhile, especially when in a run of neg. var. I logged only 18 hours of table time over 5 days but was very worn out by the end of the week and ready for a break from the game.
 

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