Using fake names

21forme

Well-Known Member
#2
I've never been asked for ID when buying in. They may ask for ID when you cash out, depending on the amount. By law, they must if you cash out 10K (and get your SSN.) Some casinos have policies where they require ID for 2 or 3K. Do they have the right to refuse cashing your chips if you refuse (for the 2-3K)?
 

squeeks

Well-Known Member
#3
So you don't get your I.D checked when buying in anywhere? Don't you have to pay taxes if you cash in over a certain amount of $? Anyone know how uch that is?
 

EyeHeartHalves

Well-Known Member
#4
This Is a Very Touchy Subject

I can't wait to see how this thread turns out! But in the mean time, Squeeks, you might want to pick up both, Comp City by Max Rubin and Burning the Tables in Las Vegas by Ian Andersen.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#5
Usually you don't need ID to buy chips. In the US you are required to pay taxes on ALL gambling winnings, although you don't officially fill out any casino paperwork unless you buy/cash more than $10k at blackjack. You may be asked for ID for smaller amounts but it is not mandatory. Other games like slots may have different thresholds as well.

-Sonny-
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#7
squeeks said:
Wouldn't you have a problem with using fake names, because when you buy chips wouldn't they ask for your I.D.?
I'm not sure what you mean by "using fake names".

(1) You have a fake government ID with a fake name on it. Possession of a fake ID (whether you use it or not) warrants criminal penalties, so unless you want to risk jail/fines, don't do this.

(2) You have a credit card or company ID with a fake name on it (this includes using someone else's player card). This is perfectly legal, but won't get you very far in most casinos since it doesn't prove your age.

(3) You simply respond with a fake name when asked for your name. Having a differing name and ID is not a problem when buying in - the dealer simply wants to know if you're 21 or not, so he/she has no interest in doing a background check on you. Simply hand the dealer your real ID, and if they comment on the name, tell them your fake name is a nickname.

(4) You have already bought in, use your fake name verbally, played for a little while, and now the pit boss comes over and wants to see ID. Now, there may be the possibility that the pit boss wants to do a background check on you. You are free to decline should you wish, but you will be asked to cash out and leave immediately. You need to use your judgement whether it's more risky to just give them your ID and risk the check, or decline and basically admit your guilt and 86 yourself.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#8
callipygian said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "using fake names".

(1) You have a fake government ID with a fake name on it. Possession of a fake ID (whether you use it or not) warrants criminal penalties, so unless you want to risk jail/fines, don't do this.

(
Are you referring to the ID of a person who works for the government, or do you mean a State driver's license?

Do you know if a fake State driver's license is illegal in and of itself? For example, if you never use it to drive or to cash checks, but only for purposes of casino identification? Any lawyers in the crowd?

Supposing it is illegal, and you have one and are caught with it by casino personnel, what would happen? Can they have you arrested? Would they? I imagine they would escort you to the door.
 
#9
I know we are all good tax paying Americans so nobody on this board would consider fake ID.

http://www.uoregon.edu/~legal/fakeids2.html (Archive copy)


Fake Id

Offenses involving false identification or misuse of identification apply to student IDs, driver licenses issued by any state or country, ID cards issued by any state or country, and other documents which might be used to prove identity, address or age.


Common offenses include:



Using Invalid License or ID
Alteration of your own driver license or DMV-issued ID, or the license or ID of another to show incorrect age. Simple possession of an altered license or ID card is enough to be charged with a crime.

Permitting Misuse of License or ID
Lending your driver license or DMV-issued ID to another in order to obtain alcohol or entry to drinking establishments. You could be prosecuted for this offense even if the friend you loaned your license to never even used it.

Using Another's License or ID
Displaying another's driver license or DMV-issued ID to obtain alcohol or entry to drinking establishments

Unlawful Production of License or ID Card
Manufacturing or selling fake driver license or ID

False Swearing/False Application/Forgery
Presenting another's identification to DMV to obtain a license or ID card which shows incorrect name, date of birth or address information

Misrepresentation of Age by a Minor
Misrepresenting your age to gain entry to drinking establishments, even if you don't consume alcohol inside. The misrepresentation could be verbal, written (such as a certified statement of age) or by presentation of any type of identification card, whether or not issued by a DMV.

Holding Multiple Licenses or ID Cards<
Applying to DMV for a duplicate license or ID whether or not you lend your original license or DMV-issued ID to another

Giving False Info to Police Officer/Police Officer Issuing Citation
Misrepresenting your name, address or age to a police officer verbally, or by presenting a borrowed, fake or altered driver license or ID card


Most of these offenses are Class A Misdemeanor crimes, punishable by up to $5,000 or one year in jail, or both. Several unfortunate students have been prosecuted for Forgery (the act of signing your friend's name on a DMV license or ID application using your friend's birth certificate). This type of Forgery is a felony, punishable by up to $10,000 fine, 5 years in jail, or both.

In addition to any penalty imposed by the sentencing court, you may also lose your driver license for at least one year, even if you are not convicted of the offense. And if you are convicted, most of these offenses are crimes of fraud or deceit which are viewed as evidence of untruthfulness or dishonesty by employers, insurers and in security clearance situations. Moreover, because most fake ID charges are driving code offenses, they generally may not be expunged (erased) from your record. That means you may carry the resulting criminal conviction forever.

If you have a fake ID, destroy it. Most students are caught with fake ID by police officers watching you search your wallet for your real ID. Also, when your friends ask for your old license as you turn 21, don't hand it over. If your friend gets caught using the ID or inadvertently loses his wallet containing two sets of ID, the chances are both of you will wind up in criminal court
 
#10
http://www.carinsurance.com/kb/content13273.aspx


If I had a fake ID from New York and am caught with it in Pennsylvania would my real NY license be revoked only in PA or in the entire USA?

Laws regarding the possession and use of fake IDs or licenses vary state. If the penalty you receive in Pennsylvania for this offense is your real New York license being suspended or revoked this information will be reported to the NYS DMV.

In New York it can be a felony to possess a fraudulent or fake driver's license. You will have to contact your local DMV to find out what penalties New York will put upon your for the offense in Pennsylvania, if you do not receive a notice from them first. If the penalty is revoking your driver's license than it will not be valid in New York, the state that issued it, and thus you would be without a valid license period.

Having a fake ID is a serious offense in most states. In New Jersey it is a criminal offense rather than a traffic violation. Offenders can face jail time and have their driver's license suspended for up to 2 years. In Maryland the fine alone is $1500 plus the loss of driving privileges for up to a year. Laws are changing rapidly, our Insurance Headlines section can help you keep up.
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#11
aslan said:
Are you referring to the ID of a person who works for the government, or do you mean a State driver's license?
An ID that purports to have been issued by a government agency, such as a driver's license, Social Security card, or military ID.

aslan said:
Do you know if a fake State driver's license is illegal in and of itself?
It is.

aslan said:
Supposing it is illegal, and you have one and are caught with it by casino personnel, what would happen? Can they have you arrested? Would they? I imagine they would escort you to the door.
They certainly could have you arrested, but I'm not sure they would. They can backroom you and hold you against your will if a crime has occurred, though, and that's reason enough to avoid it.
 

EyeHeartHalves

Well-Known Member
#13
If you really want to know...

Possessing a "fake" government ID is technically illegal. It's probably just a misdemeanor. Crafting the ID would probably fall under felony forgery. However, possessing a "real" government ID is not illegal. Thus, there are many ways around this issue but all of them (so far as I can tell) have become more difficult since 9-11. But squeeks, before I get into this, you should probably know that your original fears were unwarranted. Most counters do not feel the need to attempt the following example or anything like it but here goes:

Go to DMV and say you lost your license. Go home and mirraculously find your old one. The new one will probably be marked as 'duplicate' on it even if it does not say it literally. Flag it with a piece of Scotch tape and put it in a fire safe. Legally change your last name to your wife's (Obviously, this would be much easier for a female counter.) maiden name. There are other possibilities such as your mother's married, first cousin's new last name but you'll see that it becomes progressively more difficult. Get a new bill, credit card and ID with this new name. Put your old, old license in the fire safe along with the new credit card and bill document. Legally change your first name to your brother's first name. You could use a wife's male family member as long as his last name is not her maiden. To do this, you'll need to pay a lawyer a small fee and appear in front of a tort court judge for a few minutes. Save any and all documents from this proceding. This is your new name! Again, this is difficult. You have to be pretty creative and probably more well read than I am.

Get a third license with this newest name. Let's say it's 'John Hunt'. Now, at this point, you'll have to think about your own state's laws and procedures. Personnally, my state ID procedures have become fubar since the DC Sniper incident. Damb terrorists! Ask your brother, who's name now matches your first name, to borrow his date/place of birth, social security card, credit card, a utility bill and any/all non-photo forms of ID such as a library card. (You haven't committed identity "theft" because you "asked" him.) Go to the hospital or town hall in the city in which he was born. Explain that you lost your license and DMV is requesting a birth certificate which is also lost. Damb, you're a "loser." You now have your brother's 'duplicate birth certificate' in your fire safe with his permission. Then a 'duplicate social security card'. I think you'll have to go to his County Clerk's Office but I'm not sure. I haven't got this far yet. Up until this point, all your licenses have had the same number, address and date of birth. Find a friend or family member on the other side of the border of your state. Offer to start paying for an extra phone line in his or her house that could be used as a fax, internet, etc. Use the name that you intend to achieve. (i.e.: Wife is 'Hunt' and brother is 'John' so use 'John Hunt'. If falsifying residency without ill intent is not legal in that state, stop at this point. I will never recommend criminal activity. I have it easy because no neighboring state's ID laws are as harsh as mine. By the way, these laws are put in place so that you can't reap benefits such as lower tuition/rent costs, hide from collectors, commit crimes, etc. They're not passed into law to protect casinos from counters.

Go back to DMV and say you lost your license yet again and get a 'duplicate John Hunt license'. Now bring the out-of-state's utility bill, your brother's duplicate social security card & duplicate birth certificate, any/all of his non-photo ID's, your John Hunt court documents, especially your 'duplicate John Hunt license', all of your original name and intermediate name documents and basically the entire fire safe contents to the out-of-state DMV. Go inside and explain that you "need a new driver's license for [new state]. I just moved from [old state]. I'm late for work right now but can you tell me what documents I need?" She'll probably ask if you have your [old state] license. Say, "No I lost it when I was moving." She'll either list some alternatives (which would be nice since you just testified to driving without a license if you drove there but she knows that's none of her business) or she'll say that "you need to show your [old state] license." If she says the latter, explain that you moved four months ago (when you got the phone line) and [old state] requires proof of residency for even a duplicate license.

Your primary objectives on this mission is to get a license with John Hunt (your new legal name) and a new license number. If you could have legally accomplished this in your domestic state, you should have. However, most states put down the first dui/dwi offense as non-criminal but the second one is criminal converts the original one to criminal. Thus, they'll write laws to prevent anyone (but especially a dui offender) from obtaining a second number.

Your secondary ojectives are to have an address as different as possible, a different date of birth (assuming you are really over 21) and hope that the institution issuing the new ID may have the wrong SSN if they require one. Your secondary objectives should not be obtained if they require you to break the law of that state. Keep in mind that the "privillege of driving an automobile" should not have anything to do with federal forms of identification.

Back to the list of alternative forms of documents for the [new state] DMV lady. The idea is to minimize the quality of documents that you provide while maximizing the difference between your new ID and your original teenage ID. I'm starting to get a little shy with this essay but let's say you had to come back the next day and give them your [old state] ID. You had no alternative. Could you explain that the DoB was wrong? Was it your little brother's? Is the last name now correct because you got married? If you do this correctly, you could have a completely new ID that is not "false" nor a forgery. It would be completely legal to possess and you could show it to any casino in North America save most of the Caribbean.

What about CTR's, passports and bank accounts? It is has been illegal to "lie about your real SSN" for a CTR since the War on Drugs. What if the casino has the "wrong" SSN on file and they never ask you for anything but a license? I can't answer that question. What if you obtain a new passport that technically should be your brother's since it has his DoB and SSN on file but your new legal name--kind of like an "extra passport"? Even "with his permission," this has been illegal for quite some time. I would guess it's been illegal since WWII. This stunt would give you unmolested access to any licensed casino in the world. Falsifying your SSN to a banking institution for purposes of even a non-interest checking account or traveler's checks or anything was made illegal in the Patriot Act.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#15
EyeHeartHalves said:
Possessing a "fake" government ID is technically illegal. It's probably just a misdemeanor.
I enjoyed your convoluted path to a new ID.

So say that it is only a misdemeanor. There are Internet sites that will fashion you a driver's license. They are not really forgeries since they don't try to copy any State exactly, they just try to look "official." Anyway, say I had an Internet driver's license from Mississippi and I'm playing in Las Vegas. How would the house know that it is fake? If they did and they confronted you, and you insisted it was accurate, what would they do? Probably just decline your business. If for some reason you did get arrested, I wonder what the penalty is? $50. Something nominal and a warning not to do it again?
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#18
aslan said:
They are not really forgeries since they don't try to copy any State exactly
Yes, they are.

Most laws are pretty explicit in this regard - any ID that -->PURPORTS TO BE FROM A GOVERNMENT AGENCY<-- is illegal. Note that if you got an ID for the South Dakota Air National Guard, it's illegal even if South Dakota doesn't have an Air National Guard! As a matter of fact, it could be even argued that if you got an ID with an intentionally misspelled state name (e.g. "Massachussetts" Driver's License) that this also purports to be from a government agency.

The legalities of fake ID's is a path that is well-trodden and there's plenty of precedence against you. You're not going to discover a loophole here that millions of teenagers haven't tried exploiting already.
 
#19
aslan said:
Do you know if a fake State driver's license is illegal in and of itself? For example, if you never use it to drive or to cash checks, but only for purposes of casino identification? Any lawyers in the crowd?.
A COUNTERFIT license is illegal, but a NOVELTY license is not.

I have a novelty DL that has two important disatinctions from counterfit - its the wrong color and instead of "Motor Vehicle Services" it says Motor Services Vehicle. It also has different copy on the back.

Notwithstanding the novelty, it can look very suspicious if you are found with a bunch of them in your possesion. zg
 
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