Trip to Birmingham?

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#1
Any views? There seems to be a gaggle of casinos in and around Birmingham, but I'm interested in what the play conditions are like? Am considering a weekend jolly but don't really want to travel the hundred or so miles and then find I've to get in the queue and await a free slot at a table with 6 other players - I can do that quite a bit closer to home.
 

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#3
Thanks for your response, but when I did the Google thing there was little, if anything, on the conditions beyond the entrances. Really looking for pointers from anyone in the B'ham area who plays regularly.
 

PierceNation

Well-Known Member
#5
Brum

Hiya,

I know its been a very long while since you posted the thread...but figured id give a bit of info incase you wanted to plan another trip.

Ive just said the same on another thread, the Gala casinos are fantastic, shuffles are 1 pass R&Rs, penetration is good and I have never encountered heat. There is a grosvenors on broad street, however I have never played there. If you go just out of town theres a couple of smaller joints, a place called Maxims which has a few tables. If you dont mind travelling, The Grosvenor in Walsall (bout 20 mins away) has a 4 deck game, £5 minimum. All great places to play. If your in the area and come across a Blue Chip Casino, Dont bother. If you raise your bet by anything other than a quid they will be on you like a pack of hungry wolves, Its ridiculous. The shuffles they use are stepladdered and THEN a 1 pass R&R. Not worth It.

I stick to the Galas where I can, the atmosphere is always better than a lot of places aswell.

Hope this helps anyway =) Let me know if you want anymore info
 

blazin22

Active Member
#6
You could try Shaftsbury casino which is a small casino in Birmingham, was never really very busy at the blackjack tables. Six decks with usual rules, Theres also Castle Hill casino in Dudley that ones quite too. the other major ones like Broadway are usually busy on a weekend. Hope this helps.
 

PierceNation

Well-Known Member
#7
blazin22 said:
You could try Shaftsbury casino which is a small casino in Birmingham, was never really very busy at the blackjack tables. Six decks with usual rules, Theres also Castle Hill casino in Dudley that ones quite too. the other major ones like Broadway are usually busy on a weekend. Hope this helps.

Id avoid Castle Hill, it was part of the Blue chip chain. Been there twice, the heat was ridiculous. I only raised to my .5% adv. bet and they were watching me intensely, im not a paranoid player either. They are definately very counter aware in there. Penetration can be very bad, rules arent to good either (im sure you cant double on soft hands) from my own experience, I would avoid it.
 

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#8
PierceNation said:
Id avoid Castle Hill, it was part of the Blue chip chain. Been there twice, the heat was ridiculous. I only raised to my .5% adv. bet and they were watching me intensely, im not a paranoid player either. They are definately very counter aware in there. Penetration can be very bad, rules arent to good either (im sure you cant double on soft hands) from my own experience, I would avoid it.
What do the Americans call it? Sweating the money. Sounds like they're afraid someone who can count cards may come along and wipe out their margins for the month? I'd avoid buying shares in the place.

Never found any real heat in Galas - don't think most of the staff there have been taught to switch the immersion on. I have had people watching me, but I think it was more out of curiousity than because they thought I was "up to something" - my chips were stacking up nicely while everyone else was tossing £20 notes over the felt with monotonous regularity. I'm sure it did look a bit odd.
 

PierceNation

Well-Known Member
#9
UK-21 said:
What do the Americans call it? Sweating the money. Sounds like they're afraid someone who can count cards may come along and wipe out their margins for the month? I'd avoid buying shares in the place.

Never found any real heat in Galas - don't think most of the staff there have been taught to switch the immersion on. I have had people watching me, but I think it was more out of curiousity than because they thought I was "up to something" - my chips were stacking up nicely while everyone else was tossing £20 notes over the felt with monotonous regularity. I'm sure it did look a bit odd.
Yeah man, its definately a cash machine if you know what your doing. Problem I have here in the UK, is the fact there is only 1 maybe 2 tables, which makes a heads up, or 2-3 player game hard to come buy. Im finding my high counts drop in one round, and hands per hour drastically reduced by ploppies. Have you found a way round it? I sometimes play late afternoon, but this two hand rule when noone else is at the table is killing me, especially when the count is negative.
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
#10
PierceNation said:
Yeah man, its definately a cash machine if you know what your doing. Problem I have here in the UK, is the fact there is only 1 maybe 2 tables, which makes a heads up, or 2-3 player game hard to come buy. Im finding my high counts drop in one round, and hands per hour drastically reduced by ploppies. Have you found a way round it? I sometimes play late afternoon, but this two hand rule when noone else is at the table is killing me, especially when the count is negative.
spend sometime in the casino and note down the quite times.

Ming
 

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#11
PierceNation said:
. . . I sometimes play late afternoon, but this two hand rule when noone else is at the table is killing me, especially when the count is negative.
Don't understand? Playing two hands will reduce variance, and provide better value for the amount you wager, ie you only need to bet 150% of your normal wager (instead of 200%) across the two hands to achieve the same expectation. If the count is negative you should be betting one unit, or better still, the table min.

I've found afternoons are good as it's at these times that all of the trainees are let loose - and the supervision is all focussed on watching them to check for mistakes rather than watching the behaviour of the punters.
 

PierceNation

Well-Known Member
#12
UK-21 said:
Don't understand? Playing two hands will reduce variance, and provide better value for the amount you wager, ie you only need to bet 150% of your normal wager (instead of 200%) across the two hands to achieve the same expectation. If the count is negative you should be betting one unit, or better still, the table min.

Well, with the bankroll I have at the moment, £3 is my 'unit', which is also table minimum. To spread to 2 hands and keep my RoR at 5% I should increase my unit by 15% which would make 2 hands of (3 + 15% / 2) £1.72 to keep the RoR at 5% whilst in a negative deck. With the table min at £3, at 2 hands im forced to bet DOUBLE what I should be. Im not sure specifically how much my RoR has increased but it cant be good....

So my trouble is, with my bankroll and the fact that I have to play 2 hands heads up in a negative deck, I am overbetting. Alot.

-Overbetting when im supposed to be losing!-
 

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#13
Assuming you are working, and are able to replace any losses on an ongoing basis, I think you're taking the money management thing down to a level where it becomes largely academic.

If the difference between playing alone at a table when your talents at counting cards are most likely to bear fruit, or not playing, is £2.60 per round (difference between 2 x £3.00 and the mathmatically optimum 2 x £1.70), then perhaps you should play less frequently but with more money in your pocket?

I don't play with a bankroll - never have, I'm a casual recreational player - but always enter the house of chance with 40-50 units in hand (this equates to £120-£150 in my local) and gives a ROR of less than 10%. If I lose it I lose it. If I can find a table with nobody else on it and I can play two hands alone I will - it's the best conditions I'll find (assuming the pen remains the same).

If you can't rustle up at least £120/40 units per visit, then I think another hobby is the answer.

Sorry if that's not quite what you're hoping for by way of a response.

Good cards.

Just out of interest, what bet spread are you adopting?
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
#14
If you are playing with a fix BR and your unit is only 3 ...... then I personally think you are wasting you time, as your hourly expectation can't be that high (assuming you not spreading 1-50 or something).

I do a 1-12 spread, with £5/unit for now, but i stop or play the table min £2, when ever it allows :)

Ming
 

PierceNation

Well-Known Member
#15
Ming and UK

No, my bankroll is fine, I play to a 3K bankroll, so for my preffered 5% RoR I play with a £3 min, and spread 1-10, or 1-12 if I can get away with it. My max bet then is roughly 30 quid, and I spread over 2 hands whenever I have an advantage.

I appreciate what your saying about taking things a little too academically, however, with no hole card or surrender options & 6 decks, the games are not overly fantastic in the UK, and with what I see as a relatively small bankroll, I do not want my RoR rising anymore than it is already. every % counts to me. If I drop a grand (which is pretty likely due to normal fluc) To keep the same RoR, I would have to drop my minimum to £2, which I cant do, due to table minimum. The very last thing I want to do is increase my bet when im at a running count of -14, it may cut variance, but that doesnt change the fact that I am betting more money when Im going to be losing.
 

PierceNation

Well-Known Member
#16
I guess what im getting at is, betting slightly more when im losing (albiet over 2 hands) may cut fluc, but will decrease EV, because im over betting when losing. Id rather keep my EV than cut it for the sake of a slight decrease in fluc.
 

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#17
If you've a 1,000 unit bankroll, you're worrying too much about something theoretical that won't find it's way home until you have hundreds of hours of play under your belt (IMHO). Even then, at £3.00 per hand the long term loss expectation of playing 2 hands in neg counts rather than one is more likely to be measured in pennies than pounds.
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
#18
May i ask, how many hours have you played already and how much are you up by ?

And have you ran any simulations on your expectations / hour?
 

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#19
UK-21 said:
If you've a 1,000 unit bankroll, you're worrying too much about something theoretical that won't find it's way home until you have hundreds of hours of play under your belt (IMHO). Even then, at £3.00 per hand the long term loss expectation of playing 2 hands in neg counts rather than one is more likely to be measured in pennies than pounds.
... and then, of course, if you're playing two hands rather than not playing, the 20%ish time that the edge will move in your favour should result in your bets increasing, and the long term mathematical wins from your betting ramp will offset or outweigh the losses from betting at one unit per hand.

Sorry - should have added this to my earlier couple of lines.
 

PierceNation

Well-Known Member
#20
With this bankroll im up roughly 100 units, had some very bad neg flux when i started but im up now so im happy, been playin it for roughly 50 hours, my expectation is at 3 units per hour. Not great but im not livin off it its just a hobby so as long as I double my bank eventually im happy
 
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