The longest mile

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#1
This is the place to write stories of our encounters as aps. My present story is much like Thunder's only worse. I have been on losing streak for two months without any signs of it getting better. No matter what table or seat I'm in it's on the Titanic.The last session just flat out took out my br entirely. This is the first time I've been wiped clean and it's going to take a while for me to work up a bankroll to play properly. For all the newcomers to cc don't think that it's not possible nor probablly that this can't happen to you. You can do everything right and still the dreaded variance will knock on your door.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#2
blackchipjim said:
This is the place to write stories of our encounters as aps. My present story is much like Thunder's only worse. I have been on losing streak for two months without any signs of it getting better. No matter what table or seat I'm in it's on the Titanic.The last session just flat out took out my br entirely. This is the first time I've been wiped clean and it's going to take a while for me to work up a bankroll to play properly. For all the newcomers to cc don't think that it's not possible nor probablly that this can't happen to you. You can do everything right and still the dreaded variance will knock on your door.
Sorry to hear of your recent downturn, Jim and thanks for sharing your situation. I believe their is great value in sharing these types of experiences with one another. Especially for newer players who may not have encountered this kind of variance yet. Although there is no substitute for actually experiencing something like this first hand as far as emotions and the mental toll it can take, there is a lot to be learned from other player's experiences that can prepare you for such situations. I myself, experienced my worse negative run of my career this summer as well, dropping a thousand units in 10 weeks, from which I have now begun to rebound. Luckily I was ahead almost 3000 units for the year at the time my downward spiral began, so I was never in any danger of tapping out and I am sure the emotional toll was lessened considerably by that prior good fortune, but never the less when you encounter such a prolonged period of losing, session after session, day after day, week after week, it plays with your mind. You wonder if you will ever win again and begin to question everything, from your particular playing style, to the mathematics involved.

Your 'forced' break in the action, while you regroup, may be just what the doctor ordered and hopefully, you can once again, begin that long journey back up the hill. Good thoughts and peace to you. :)

Might I inquire as to what kind of RoR you were playing with?
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#3
Sorry man!!!

Now that really sucks !!!!!!!!!! No BR???? Crap!!! dead in the water...down the river without a paddle? Sad to hear it....:mad:
I hope others read your story and take heed.....its not all rosy out there...DAM!!!
Do you have to change your handle now????? :rolleyes:


Machinist
 
#5
Jim

I am sorry that this event has occured.:sad:

This is everyones fear, to run into such a streak, and it would be a great learning experience to dissect the situation to see if there are any underlying causes that brought it about, like game selection, overbetting, emotion, exhaustion etc., etc.

I truly hate to hear of this happening to you, best wishes for the future.

Friend,
CP
 

mathman

Well-Known Member
#6
Jim I'm sorry you have to go through this. It's truly a test that one should not have to endure. When I got sick I continued to play anyway because I thought I wasn't making mistakes etc. and I lost everything. I didn't know what to do after that. CP and a few others here helped me to get through my "dark days" mentally but getting my game back was up to me. My biggest problem getting back on my feet was coming to terms with playing for smaller profits. I had gotten so used to the income I had from this game that earning smaller amounts didn't seem like a success to me. I needed to quit for awhile and learn the value of money again.

Right before the BJ Bash in 2009 I decided I couldn't face my peers playing red chips. I decided to quit all together and drop out of a way of life I had lived for many years. So many times during that year I struggled with that decision but I learned the value of money and those lessons have helped me since I've returned to the game. My only regret was I also left this board. I suggest you take this time to work on your game at home and appreciate the skills you have. Take some time off and when you are able to return be very realistic of what you expect to be able to earn. Trust me, smaller wins do add up into something and at the end of a week or month you've got something to be proud of in your pocket again. You will get back on your feet and in the meanwhile lean on your friends here. There are a group of good guys here that can help you....JtMM:cool:
.
 
#7
Bash

mathman said:
Jim I'm sorry you have to go through this. It's truly a test that one should not have to endure. When I got sick I continued to play anyway because I thought I wasn't making mistakes etc. and I lost everything. I didn't know what to do after that. CP and a few others here helped me to get through my "dark days" mentally but getting my game back was up to me. My biggest problem getting back on my feet was coming to terms with playing for smaller profits. I had gotten so used to the income I had from this game that earning smaller amounts didn't seem like a success to me. I needed to quit for awhile and learn the value of money again.

Right before the BJ Bash in 2009 I decided I couldn't face my peers playing red chips. I decided to quit all together and drop out of a way of life I had lived for many years. So many times during that year I struggled with that decision but I learned the value of money and those lessons have helped me since I've returned to the game. My only regret was I also left this board. I suggest you take this time to work on your game at home and appreciate the skills you have. Take some time off and when you are able to return be very realistic of what you expect to be able to earn. Trust me, smaller wins do add up into something and at the end of a week or month you've got something to be proud of in your pocket again. You will get back on your feet and in the meanwhile lean on your friends here. There are a group of good guys here that can help you....JtMM:cool:
.
Let me be clear that indeed while we missed MM at the 2009 get together this is the first I have come to realize that it was over the size of his bet. Let me make this clear,,it is not about the size of your bet,,,it is what you do with it!:laugh::laugh:;) Had to inject that:):grin::laugh:

Now looking toward the future I would hope at upcoming Bash's that all would understand that it is not about judgment, skillz or color of chips you bet,,,but learning and friendship and community,,,because we are a very small and specialized community that needs to support and respect one another.:)

CP
 

forwhat77

Well-Known Member
#8
Now I don't feel so bad..I too was invited to the Bash and did not come because I am a red chipper. As well, I don't think I at all fit the description of your typical counter. I am glad that you put that out there mathman and thanks for the rebuttal CP...
 

BJLFS

Well-Known Member
#9
I know about that NV! It hit me in LV and wiped out almost 3/4 of my bankroll. There was nothing I could do about it. I changed casinos, dealers, etc. I know that my game is good. Before that trip I was just playing BS and would win pretty much all the time. On my last trip two trips to Reno, it wasn't as bad as LV but I am still experiencing NV. Anyways, I am going back over my game to see if there is anything I missed and I don't think there is. BTW, I am planning on a trip to a near by Indian Casino.

I kind of know what you are going through though.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#10
BJLFS said:
I know about that NV! It hit me in LV and wiped out almost 3/4 of my bankroll. There was nothing I could do about it. I changed casinos, dealers, etc. I know that my game is good. Before that trip I was just playing BS and would win pretty much all the time. On my last trip two trips to Reno, it wasn't as bad as LV but I am still experiencing NV. Anyways, I am going back over my game to see if there is anything I missed and I don't think there is. BTW, I am planning on a trip to a near by Indian Casino.

I kind of know what you are going through though.
I would ask you the same question that I asked of blackchipjim. What kind of RoR are you playing with? When people are talking about 3/4 of there BR being wiped out in a trip, or saying things like "the last session just flat out took my bankroll entirely", such as jim said, it kind of indicates that they are playing with a relatively high RoR. Maybe something like full kelly with no resizing? :confused: Which is fine if your bankroll is replenishible and you aren't dependant on that money and that's what you choose to play. Players like myself, who's BR is not replenishible or not easily replenishible, can not risk losing thier BR, so we play a ridiculously low RoR. Often less that 1%. I understand that most people are not in that situation and are willing to endure a little more risk, but you should realize that losing your bankroll becomes a real possibility under those circumstances, especially if you don't resize down at some point. :eek:
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#11
creeping panther said:
Let me be clear that indeed while we missed MM at the 2009 get together this is the first I have come to realize that it was over the size of his bet. Let me make this clear,,it is not about the size of your bet,,,it is what you do with it!:laugh::laugh:;) Had to inject that:):grin::laugh:

Now looking toward the future I would hope at upcoming Bash's that all would understand that it is not about judgment, skillz or color of chips you bet,,,but learning and friendship and community,,,because we are a very small and specialized community that needs to support and respect one another.:)

CP
Heck i know of a person that is very feeble at card counting and even he made it to the bash. In fact i dont think he turned a card at the bj tables.....!!!!:eek:
Come one.....come all!!!!! Now i'm getting excited about another Bash........Dam you CP:whip::whip:

Mach
 
#12
Macho

Machinist said:
Heck i know of a person that is very feeble at card counting and even he made it to the bash. In fact i dont think he turned a card at the bj tables.....!!!!:eek:
Come one.....come all!!!!! Now i'm getting excited about another Bash........Dam you CP:whip::whip:

Mach
Thanks to you the BASH attendees have an entirely new world of AP play opened up to them. Thank you so much on behalf of myself and over 35 attendees.:):cool::1st:

CP
 

mathman

Well-Known Member
#13
creeping panther said:
Thanks to you the BASH attendees have an entirely new world of AP play opened up to them. Thank you so much on behalf of myself and over 35 attendees.:):cool::1st:

CP
OK rub it in. :laugh::grin::eek::whip:
.
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#14
creeping panther said:
Thanks to you the BASH attendees have an entirely new world of AP play opened up to them. Thank you so much on behalf of myself and over 35 attendees.:):cool::1st:

CP
Now Now!!!! :):) I just wish there was more stuff happening out there with the machines.....really really slow...a few odds and ends ,nothing to set the world on fire though..
Ole Froggie has a much better perspective of the "machine ap world" now...I'm sure he will have a few stories to tell at the next Bash.... poor guy didnt know what he was gettin into:p
What really has me interested is this " Clay trading by Mathman" :laugh::laugh:
I want IN!!!!!!! That's my kinda gig!!

Machinist
 

mathman

Well-Known Member
#15
Machinist said:
What really has me interested is this " Clay trading by Mathman" :laugh::laugh:
I want IN!!!!!!! That's my kinda gig!!

Machinist
Machinist the fall trading season has been very good so far!!:grin:...JtMM:cool:
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#16
The Bank

I play with a replenishable br so being wiped out is not really wiped out. I don't play with funds I cannot afford to lose but losing the entire wad is dishearting. I will rise again it takes a little time but should be up and running again before the end of november. My moniker of bcj is just that since I don't have nor would risk large sums of money on the game. I enjoy playing effectively at the red chip level and sometimes green with the same gratification as if I was a blackchipper. I play a good game and win most of the time so getting in this present slump that has lasted for over a month is not good for my ego. One of these days I may go to the bash just to meet some of the ladies and gentlemen that make up and contribute to this site. I appreciate all the support and letting me cry in your beers.:cry:
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#17
Machinist said:
Now Now!!!! :):) ........
Ole Froggie has a much better perspective of the "machine ap world" now...I'm sure he will have a few stories to tell at the next Bash.... poor guy didnt know what he was gettin into:p
....
Machinist
i'll just say it's been a real wake up call for me in many, many respects.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#18
kewljason said:
I would ask you the same question that I asked of blackchipjim. What kind of RoR are you playing with? When people are talking about 3/4 of there BR being wiped out in a trip, or saying things like "the last session just flat out took my bankroll entirely", such as jim said, it kind of indicates that they are playing with a relatively high RoR. Maybe something like full kelly with no resizing? :confused: Which is fine if your bankroll is replenishible and you aren't dependant on that money and that's what you choose to play. Players like myself, who's BR is not replenishible or not easily replenishible, can not risk losing thier BR, so we play a ridiculously low RoR. Often less that 1%. I understand that most people are not in that situation and are willing to endure a little more risk, but you should realize that losing your bankroll becomes a real possibility under those circumstances, especially if you don't resize down at some point. :eek:
You are hitting the nail right on the head, KJ. One of the most difficult things for me, and I suspect the majority of card counters, is to keep within a very low RoR. The reason this is difficult for me is that the bankroll required to, say, play a $25 min game, $25,000, makes the resulting $25 an hour win rate (more or less) seem too small to be worthwhile. It's just a matter of sizing.

If you are playing $10 min games, and you have the requisite $10,000 bankroll, you will easily begin to feel bored at the unexciting pace of reward--not to mention, alarmed at the numerous occasions where a healthy chunk of your bankroll is at risk. So that combination of "bored and alarmed" is enough to turn any $10 player toward a job at Burger King where they can make the same amount on good and bad days alike, same boring pace, plus comps (er,,,I mean, free meals--lol).

I can't tell you why card counters count!

Is it the thought of getting something for nothing? It doesn't take long to realize that this isn't true.

Is it the idea of beating that demon called The House? That may be part of it. Self righteous bunch, aren't we?

Is it the idea of exchanging brainpower for dollars? I think you undervalue the worth of your brainpower.

Is it the independence with which you are able to forge your own way? I think a small "legitimate" business would be more lucrative, plus win the esteem and envy of many everyday people around you.

Is it the occasional large scores that give you that exhilarating feeling of being on top of the world? Wait a minute, average it out over all those hills and valleys of play to that miserly win rate that is your real win. I think you may be a gambler at heart, hidden under the camouflage of science--seek help.

Or is it that you just like doing it?
You like your surroundings.
You like the game of blackjack.
You like beating the unbeatable, the demon house.
You like being able to make a living at it, or if you're a recreational player, you like the extra cash.
You like the free hotel rooms and dining in fine restaurants afforded by earned comps.
You like the feeling of being your own man (or woman).
You like meeting people from all walks of life.
You like listening to the goofy remarks of ploppies at the table.
You like the idea of being "in the know."
You like the vacation and charged atmosphere of casinos.
You like the challenge
--scouting for beatable games
--playing with unperturbed faith in the science of the game
--running sims to analyze and improve your play
--keeping abreast of the latest changes in card counting and related advantage play.
Hey, if you just like it...
you're a lifer!
 

flyingwind

Well-Known Member
#19
Machinist said:
Heck i know of a person that is very feeble at card counting and even he made it to the bash. In fact i dont think he turned a card at the bj tables.....!!!!:eek:
Come one.....come all!!!!! Now i'm getting excited about another Bash........Dam you CP:whip::whip:

Mach
Around what time is the next bash?
 

flyingwind

Well-Known Member
#20
aslan said:
Is it the thought of getting something for nothing? It doesn't take long to realize that this isn't true.

Is it the idea of beating that demon called The House? That may be part of it. Self righteous bunch, aren't we?
Nice post. Probably should have posted it next month, as it would have gotten post of the month. I think someone else already not nominated for this month's post of the month.

Lots of items to relate to.

CC is hard work. It's not just getting something for nothing. It takes a lot of discipline.

Beating the house was a fun accomplishment. Proving that you can do it is just one part. But to make the EV worth it, then you've got to risk a lot more.
 
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