How do you win at Video poker?

Senacchrib

Well-Known Member
#1
I saw some strategy cards in the store that said the return is 99.17% at 8/6 Video poker, but I have heard of people making a profit on it. Could someone explain the general concept to me? Also, has anyone had any success within THIS community with dice control?
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#2
Senacchrib said:
I saw some strategy cards in the store that said the return is 99.17% at 8/6 Video poker, but I have heard of people making a profit on it. Could someone explain the general concept to me? Also, has anyone had any success within THIS community with dice control?
I'm not sure of your 99.17% on 8/6 JOB (Jacks or Better). I know that 9/6 JOB is 99.5% if played perfectly. But, in general, VP can be beatable if you are willing to play only positive return machines and that involves a lot of research in finding them!

With JOB, you are pretty much playing the game to hit a Royal Flush which pays 4000 with max credits played. Those hands hit on the average, once about every 40,000 hands. But, JOB is probably the game easiest learned and it seems to me to have the least variance of the VP games.
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#3
Winning at video poker is possible by learning the optimal strategy, selecting a game that is above 100% return including cashback from the player's club, and being sufficiently bankrolled and disciplined to reach the long run.

Almost all video poker opportunities require the addition of cash back from the player's club to be positive. Even then, it's a tough game. It is psychologically much tougher than blackjack, because most of your sessions are losers, even when you are playing a winning game overall. It's basically lose, lose, lose, lose, win a little, lose, lose, lose, hit a royal to get positive again.

Very tough on the psyche. However, comps are a lot easier with video poker, and with a few exceptions, players aren't generally backed off by the casino while playing video poker. (yet)
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#5
Selecting a good video poker machine simply means knowing the paytable. Unlike slots, you can tell the exact theoretical return for a video poker machine just be looking at the paytable. For example, the "full-pay" version of the popular Jacks or Better game returns 99.54% with perfect play. (And, the perfect strategy is not all that tough.)

There are other games that legitimately return over 100%. Full Pay Deuces Wild is still available around Las Vegas in 25c versions, and it returns 100.76%. At the dollar level, you can still find Double Bonus full-pay games that return 100.17%.

Add in cashback, and you have a large enough edge to make a noticeable profit over the long run.

For lots of info on paytables, check here: http://videopoker.fws1.com/ (Archive copy)
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#6
If you do take up VP though, get ready for a roller-coaster ride! There are a lot of swings both up and down....but mostly down. You have to have a pretty significant bankroll to ride the out.

I usually look for a nickel or quarter VP machine to kill time when I need a break from the BJ tables.
 

Senacchrib

Well-Known Member
#7
Thanks for all the info

This really helped a lot. However, why do they have positive paytable games? Just because they don't expect people to wait out the long bad runs till a royal?
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#8
Very few players ever learn the correct strategy to play a winning game. That way, the casino can advertise games that return over 100%, but few players will achieve that. However, there are enough savvy players out there that the really nice opportunities don't last long. For example Wynn Casino in Vegas had 100.76% deuces wild in dollars for a couple of weeks. They were played virtually non-stop, by smart players. They're gone of course.

If you intend to pursue video poker take Mikeaber's comment to heart. It's a MAJOR roller coaster ride. The best way to learn the games is to use software. Check the store here if you're interested.
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#10
Yes: Jacks or Better Video Poker Strategy Card

To find the right machines for full-pay Jacks, look at the 1-coin payoffs. They should be:

Royal Flush 250 (4000 for 5-coins, check this too)
Straight Flush 50
4-of-a-Kind 25
Full House 9 <- This is the "9" in 9/6
Flush 6 <- This is the "6"
Straight 4
3-of-a-Kind 3
Two pair 2
Pair of Jacks or higher 1

How much difference does it make?
9/6 Jacks pays back 99.54%
8/6 Jacks pays back 98.39%
9/5 Jacks pays back 98.45%
8/5 Jacks pays back 97.30%
 

Senacchrib

Well-Known Member
#13
Thanx...

Thanks for all the info, but being a student I don't have much more than a 100 buck BR for 3 dollar Blackjack tables, so I fully doubt my ability to handle Video Poker.
 

Quinc

Well-Known Member
#14
i've been asking around on some diffrent message boards and people are saying that the peppermill in reno has 10/6 vp. if anyone is interested.
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#15
Isle of Capri

I just returned from a trip to Kansas City, Mo. I found a video poker machine that isn't all that commonly seen in Las Vegas any more called "All American Poker." In the full pay version, the game pays (for 5-coin play):
RF 4000
SF 1000
4oK 200
FH 40
F 40
S 40
2P 5
Job 5

At Ameristar, well, just don't play it there. The pay tables look more like Double Bonus or something like it.

At Harrah's, the pay tables look almost correct except that they pay 150 for 4oK.

At Isle of Capri, they have the real thing back behind the Blackjack tables.

If you find this game in the quarter version with full pay tables, I'd like to hear about it. It's a good game though becoming hard to find. The playing strategy is totally different from JOB. The return is so high on virtually everything except Full Houses and pairs that strategy calls for going for them when you would settle for a low pair in JOB....even inside straights!
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#16
Ooh, All American is my favorite game, with a juicy return of 100.72% with the best paytable. The correct strategy for that game is very challenging, but I learned to play it fast and well back when (Dead link: http://bh3.net/l.php/715) _Global Player_ offered it full-pay on a $1 game during their 'Happy Hours'. I hit several royals there for $4000, and was planning to start playing it at the Copa in Gulfport MS as well. Shortly thereafter, the Copa removed the games, and Global cancelled the Happy Hours.

Since then, I've only played it occasionally at the Las Vegas Hilton, where they still have it on $0.25 games in the SpaceQuest casino.

One more thing: Don't play this game by the seat of your pants. Using a normal Jacks or Better strategy on this game only returns 97.34%!!!!
That's the worst cost of using the wrong game's strategy that you'll find on this very cool list:
http://videopoker.fws1.com/wrong_strat.html (Archive copy)
 
#17
Vp

Ken has pointed you to a couple of fine sites...the Wizards and 5-Cards. Next site to join is the Yahoo! group vpFREE. On this homepage are links to these sites and other math sound ones, plus FAQs, glossary, regional discussions and a database of playable VP.

Now how about some All-American? Let's see two suited one gap, yep.
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#18
I don't know why this game has lost so much in popularity. I can only think that "the masses" are trying to play it like JOB. The 40x payouts on S, F and FHs introduce a new dimension on decision making that a JOB players would recoil in horror should they be watching! I am not a VP junkie at all. But when I need a break from Blackjack, it is sort of nice to find a good AAP machine and play quarters on it for a while. Sure getting hard to find though.

Ill have to get on the vpFree site and see where in Vegas the Full Pays are. I play mostly Downtown but have heard that the Hilton has them at the quarter level (oh, wait, Ken just confirmed that!)
 
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