Blackjack Winnings and Loses via taxes?

FreeStyle

Well-Known Member
#1
Seriously how does this go? Let's say you are sitting at a highroller table and you win $20,000 in play and then leave to cash out. Does the casino make you file any forms or do anything? Or do they just let you walk out with the money?

If you claim the money yourself, how do you prove how much it was that you made?

NOW FOR THE LOSES:

What if you LOST $20,000 over the course of the year? Can you claim that and get any kind of deduction?
 
#2
***take all this under the impression that it's lies and talk to a professional tax consultant about it***

from reading pamphlets, minuscule amounts of research, and chatting with casino staff at the cages this is what i'm under the impression of.

you report all of your winnings and all of your losses. any winnings greater than losses is added to your yearly income and affects your tax bracket as such. you can claim losses up to your yearly winnings. if you get audited they will review the casino logs and whatever banking statements they have access to and see if your statements match up.

ive been told to keep a ledger at minimum and it can be used as evidence to help your case.

ex: Hero makes 60k a year from his job. has 50k in winnings and 30k in losses making his net profit 20k. add that to his annual salary and he pays taxes on the 80k.

Ploppy makes 60k a year from his job. has 30k in winnings and 50k in losses making his net profit -20k. he claims 30k with his tax consult and proves his loss of 50k. the consultant evens out the 30k with with 30k from the loss and his annual taxable salary does not increase. he pays taxes on 60k. the remaining 20k in losses do not affect his tax status.

hope this helps somewhat (and hope i haven't been fed a lot of mess).

TL;DR:: your net winnings are added to your annual salary and you pay taxes on that. if your red for the year, it doesn't help you in anyway in regards to taxes.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#3
A casino,by law, must fill out a Cash Transaction Report for anyone cashing out $10,000 or more. They have the option to file one for less.
 

FreeStyle

Well-Known Member
#4
Ahhh, thanks for the help. So what if you win $10,000 and then lose $10,000. Let's say a tax thing was filled out for the first $10,000 (by the casino since you mentioned they have to for $10,000+) so the IRS knows you have it. But you lost it so it wasn't really income? I know you said that you would have to prove you lost it but how?! I mean especially if you lost in smaller increments like at the slots, poker and blackjack?
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#5
Careful. That is not true for recreational gamblers. See an accountant.

Edit: The IRS definition of recreational may not be the same as ours.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#6
FreeStyle said:
Ahhh, thanks for the help. So what if you win $10,000 and then lose $10,000. Let's say a tax thing was filled out for the first $10,000 (by the casino since you mentioned they have to for $10,000+) so the IRS knows you have it. But you lost it so it wasn't really income? I know you said that you would have to prove you lost it but how?! I mean especially if you lost in smaller increments like at the slots, poker and blackjack?
A CTRC (and it's kin the SARC) is not a "tax thing". It is used to detect/prevent money laundering and other illegal activities.(But IS handled by the IRS) You should receive a form from the casino for transactions reported to the IRS (similar to a 1099) for tax purposes.
 

FreeStyle

Well-Known Member
#7
daddybo - Is this form that I can get from the casinos already filled out? Like would they have to prove that I lost so-and-so much money or do I just fill it out and the IRS takes my word for it?
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#8
FreeStyle said:
daddybo - Is this form that I can get from the casinos already filled out? Like would they have to prove that I lost so-and-so much money or do I just fill it out and the IRS takes my word for it?
The casino only gives you forms for wins. They will not usually go any farther than the law requires.

Usually you only get them on certain kinds of wins.. like Slot Payoffs, Tournament wins, Jackpost wins, etc, and they are furnished by the casino. You can also request a win loss statement from the casino that shows their record of your activity.

If you are a recreational gamer, you probably shouldn't even worry about taxes on wins (or claiming offsetting losses) unless its a significant amount of money. Its best not to mention gambling on your tax form unless you have to. Also as a practice, for multiple reasons, it's best not to cash in or out very much a one time. Cash larger amounts a fraction at a time. (don't use a players card) Let friends/cohorts help if they will. Be discreet.

I'm not an expert on this by any means... (just paranoid). If any one else has info... jump in.
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#9
Seriously folks. You cannot deduct losses from winnings unless you can show that this is a real business/profession. Be careful.
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#11
1357111317 said:
Why not? My session started Jan 31 and ended Dec 31. So each year I only have one winning session or one losing session.
Well, IMHO, my session started when I was born and ends when I die. But, the IRS has a different view.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#12
QFIT said:
Seriously folks. You cannot deduct losses from winnings unless you can show that this is a real business/profession. Be careful.
Why do you say that? Anyone can deduct their losses from their winnings. Only a pro can deduct their expenses, but the IRS allows to deduct losses.

The casino will give you a won/lost statement each year around Feb 1st.
It's a rough guess on their part. It's good to request one because it gives you a snapshot of what they think of your play. My table losses are almost always way more than in reality.
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#13
shadroch said:
Anyone can deduct their losses from their winnings. ..
Well, here's what I think.

Nothing on you Rock - you were just last post.

Ever notice when you put $1 in a slot machine and hit for $1200?

Here comes a W-2G, or 1099-something for $1200 of taxable income.

In reality, your net win is $1199, isn't it? If one can automatically offset losses vs winnings why must one report $1200 of taxable income as income?

If Uncle Sam could stand behind you, he would want to include each and every winning BJ hand in income. One has bet after-tax dollars and produced income with those after-tax dollars just as one might have by buying a stock, after all. One has "invested" in a BJ game. The $1200 is arbitrary and just for balancing when paperwork is worth reality.

If BJ is not your living, yes, one can offset losses vs winings but only on Sch A if one can itemize deductions. I forget if it's in the Misc section subject to a 2% of AGI or not.

If one cannot itemize, one is SOL and must pay tax on the, say, $1200.

How do you think these high-limit slot players feel, say, at a $100 min slot machine, feel at the end of the year when they have generated perhaps hundreds of W-2G's (one for each indiv win of $1200 or more) yet, most likely, playing slots afer all, have probably lost money?

They must include all the W-2 G's in income and pay taxes on it. And, you know, I think there was some kind of "surtax" on total income this year so these guys are really screwed once it hits, I think, a million or so? Which for a $100 min slot player can easily happen.

Whatever, gambling losses are only deductible on Sch A, unless one is a professional, as best I understand it.

Any of you accounting guys out there have an opinion one way or the other? Maybe Aslan? Maybe Auto Monk?
 

FreeStyle

Well-Known Member
#15
Speaking of stock, how does that work? If you make $10,000 in stock and then lose it later would you still have to claim it or does it even itself out?


Kasi said:
If Uncle Sam could stand behind you, he would want to include each and every winning BJ hand in income. One has bet after-tax dollars and produced income with those after-tax dollars just as one might have by buying a stock, after all. One has "invested" in a BJ game. The $1200 is arbitrary and just for balancing when paperwork is worth reality.

If BJ is not your living, yes, one can offset losses vs winings but only on Sch A if one can itemize deductions. I forget if it's in the Misc section subject to a 2% of AGI or not.

If one cannot itemize, one is SOL and must pay tax on the, say, $1200.

How do you think these high-limit slot players feel, say, at a $100 min slot machine, feel at the end of the year when they have generated perhaps hundreds of W-2G's (one for each indiv win of $1200 or more) yet, most likely, playing slots afer all, have probably lost money?

They must include all the W-2 G's in income and pay taxes on it. And, you know, I think there was some kind of "surtax" on total income this year so these guys are really screwed once it hits, I think, a million or so? Which for a $100 min slot player can easily happen.

Whatever, gambling losses are only deductible on Sch A, unless one is a professional, as best I understand it.

Any of you accounting guys out there have an opinion one way or the other? Maybe Aslan? Maybe Auto Monk?
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#17
FreeStyle said:
Speaking of stock, how does that work? If you make $10,000 in stock and then lose it later would you still have to claim it or does it even itself out?
You can offset stock losses against stock gains. But you can only deduct stock losses $3000 a year if you have no gains to offset. Example: You buy $10000 worth of stock XYZ and it tanks down to $1000 and you have to sell and have no gains on other stocks. The $9000 dollar loss will have to be taken over a 3 year period at $3000 a year. Now that's how stupid our tax laws are.

-db
 
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