Creating paper Losses

#1
Hi

Does anyone have any tips on creating paper loses so that the pitboss and casino do not think you are winning as much as you acctually are. Such as palming chips when on a winning streak ect. Also can anyone give idea's on how to make your loosing streaks seem even worse to the pitbosses than they acctually are. It doesn't have to be paper loses but just to make the pitboss think you are loosing way more than you acctually are.

Thanks
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#3
If you "rathole"chips by "palming" them, it may "backfire" upon you.

  • The Pit Boss accounts for all large and medium chips on the table.
  • The Eye in the Sky sees all.
  • Trying to hide your win level creates suspicion.
  • Once identified you will create a situation wherein missing chips are assumed to be in your pocket — thus creating the opposite effect that you are trying to achieve.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#4
When you get down a significant amount, cash out when the count is against you. The pitboss will record your loss, and you can go buy-in at another table. Chances are you'll rebound from that temporary downturn, but it will remain on your permanent record.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#5
FLASH1296 said:
If you "rathole"chips by "palming" them, it may "backfire" upon you.

  • The Pit Boss accounts for all large and medium chips on the table.
  • The Eye in the Sky sees all.
  • Trying to hide your win level creates suspicion.
  • Once identified you will create a situation wherein missing chips are assumed to be in your pocket — thus creating the opposite effect that you are trying to achieve.
Funny. I was playing the other day and I saw the pit critter going from table to table inventorying the chips. Just for conversation, I asked him what he was doing. He said, "We've got a few blacks we can't account for." :laugh:

My reply, "I hope you find them." For some reason, I doubt they did on that particular day. :)
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#6
For this to work you have to have your action "closed out". If you just switch tables, your action continues apace.

If you disappear for a ½ hr. or more that won't happen.

I ask to be "closed out", claiming that I need to "update my 'comp points'" — in order to deflect suspicion.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#7
An Ironic Result.

daddybo,

From that observation you can intuit that the Pit Boss will call the EYE to see who has the black chips.

If/When they find the miscreant, he will thereafter, have missing chips ADDED to his
aggregate results at the table — the ironic result of trying to 'hide' his/her wins.
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#8
If you happen to be playing at a table with a ploppie who's going south with lots of green chips (and the boss catches him); you MIGHT be able to get away with rat - holing a couple of hundred yourself. If you're sneaky enough that you don't get caught, when the boss checks the rack he'll probably assume that the ploppie has the chips.

Another trick to use is; if someone walks away from the table with green chips, & doesn't color up; you can often slip a couple of chips into your pocket. Just remember one thing - these moves RARELY (if EVER) work with black chips.

Here's a move that's been used with some success, but it only works in certain conditions, (and you probably would only want to use it as a last resort anyway):
Walk into the club, go up to a table & place a $500 bet off the top of the shuffle. If you win, count your blessings & walk away. If you lose, buy in for another 500 bucks & put your rating card on top of the money. Play a couple of hands for a quarter, color up; and walk away. This move will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $3 in equity. While it doesn't always work,this move HAS been known to repair some pretty soiled images.

There are also some very advanced moves that cannot be discussed on this forum, for obvious (and not so obvious reasons). Use your imagination.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#9
FLASH1296 said:
daddybo,

From that observation you can intuit that the Pit Boss will call the EYE to see who has the black chips.

If/When they find the miscreant, he will thereafter, have missing chips ADDED to his
aggregate results at the table — the ironic result of trying to 'hide' his/her wins.
The operative word here is IF... :whip: But you are correct,. Ratholing can do more harm than good.
 

Finn Dog

Well-Known Member
#11
ulrich said:
Hi

Does anyone have any tips on creating paper loses so that the pitboss and casino do not think you are winning as much as you acctually are.
Book your losses.

That is, after your normal amount of play, if you're down don't play till you're break even--book your losses, leave, and come back another day.

In not doing this, you run the risk of exposing yourself to Surveillance.

FD
 

Renzey

Well-Known Member
#14
daddybo said:
Funny. I was playing the other day and I saw the pit critter going from table to table inventorying the chips. He said, "We've got a few blacks we can't account for."
I dunno. Once again I find myself playing Devil's advocate. But I'm convinced that if you play repeatedly over a long period of time in one particular casino, you will have to play rated, and you will absolutely have to make your player's card look like a long term loser.

At $25 tables, players come and go all the time, many of them taking their chips with them. Women players are great for salting them in their purses. Play at a half dozen green chip tables and rathole $100 to $150 worth of greens at each table, every time you play. Then just let the wins and losses take care of themselves.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#15
Renzey said:
I dunno. Once again I find myself playing Devil's advocate. But I'm convinced that if you play repeatedly over a long period of time in one particular casino, you will have to play rated, and you will absolutely have to make your player's card look like a long term loser.
I would have to agree with that... I do play rated at some stores. I call them my comp bases... the rest are anonymous.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#16
If you are going to rat hole you only need to do so your EV or slightly more to make your long term results go from winning to losing. I think most players tend to overdue it, especially during big winning sessions. As Flash and Daddybo pointed out, getting caught ratholing is bad. VERY bad. Much worse than even showing a large longterm win. :( For the most part, I have stopped playing rated, which means there is no need to rathole. I am willing to give up comps for anonymity. On the limited occasions that I play for comps, I rathole only slightly more than EV, while in the bathroom, completely out of sight. (or so I hope) :laugh:
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#17
kewljason said:
On the limited occasions that I play for comps, I rathole only slightly more than EV, while in the bathroom, completely out of sight. (or so I hope) :laugh:
Have you gotten any grief for taking chips with you for a bathroom break? I've had a few places (LV only) tell me they won't hold my spot if I take my chips with me.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#18
21forme said:
Have you gotten any grief for taking chips with you for a bathroom break? I've had a few places (LV only) tell me they won't hold my spot if I take my chips with me.
No I haven't. As I said, I only do so very infrequently when I play rated. I usually play a hit and run style, so if it is time for a "bathroom break", it is probably time for me to move on anyway. But I must say, that I personally have never bought into that idea of leaving chips at the table and having the casino and/or anyone else watch them. I like to take responsiblity for my own money. And chips are money! I wouldn't go to the restrooom and leave $800 cash laying on the table and I would do so with chips! :laugh: But that's just me. We have had these discussions in other threads. New dealer comes on, he don't know who's money it is?? :confused::eek:
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#19
21forme said:
So how do you deal with your long-term win on the books?
I have stores that i have real loses recorded... though probably not as big in reality as shown. I rotate other places for the bread money.
 

WRX

Well-Known Member
#20
When leaving a table, before presenting your chips for coloring up, ALWAYS pocket a few chips of the denomination just BELOW the largest you are playing. Win or lose. Don't do this surreptitiously, but try to do it before the PC's attention is drawn to the table. Ploppies do this, so it doesn't look unnatural. You're just saving some chips that you plan to play later, right? In my experience, this works just fine. Maybe the PCs see it, maybe they don't. If they don't, they'll probably calculate your win or loss incorrectly. There's little down side. Do the same thing when changing tables, and if you run out of chips on the felt, don't pull out the chips in your pocket, buy in again. I don't think that it's the Eye's job to look for this kind of thing and report back to the PCs under normal circumstances.

Request year-end win-loss statements, and see if this hasn't worked out for you.

This should go a long way toward concealing the sizes of your cashouts. If you're making a high-value play, it may be inadequate to cover your expectation. You may want to add in surreptitious ratholing during play. As others have said, this CAN backfire. From published stories, surveillance people seem to be very familiar with the down-the-back-of-the-shirt move. I would suggest, instead, practicing palming chips, and in a very natural, inconspicuous way pocketing them. If you're caught doing it this way, at least you have plausible deniability. Ploppies rathole, too, but not down the back of the shirt!

If you're doing a lot of high-value play, you may have to engage in deliberate "loss-generating" plays to rehabilitate your player's card. Or it may become impractical to do so, meaning you can't afford to get too well known as a winner.

If you have any sizable stash of chips, don't cash them at the cage all at the same time. The news could make its way back to the pit.
 
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