Kid I found trying to cheat

#1
So the other day I was at the tables and I saw this kid who was sitting in center field. This game was a double deck pitch game where the cards are dealt face down, which is the only time I can see this working. Either the kid was just acting like he was quite slow, or he actually was slow, but many times I saw that he would tuck his hand when the dealer had a bust card out and he drew a bust, Im guessing hoping that the dealer would bust, and then would proceed to just pay out everyone that still had cards out without actually counting up the cards to make sure noone busted.

He got caught by one dealer, and he just played it off like he miss counted and didnt realize he busted. Pretty slick / mischievous of him. I'd never try it, but found it interesting.

Anyone have any experience in this? Seems pretty dangerous to me, I feel like you get caught doing that too many times and they will kick you out promptly
 

FrankieT

Well-Known Member
#2
S2krazy03 said:
So the other day I was at the tables and I saw this kid who was sitting in center field. This game was a double deck pitch game where the cards are dealt face down, which is the only time I can see this working. Either the kid was just acting like he was quite slow, or he actually was slow, but many times I saw that he would tuck his hand when the dealer had a bust card out and he drew a bust, Im guessing hoping that the dealer would bust, and then would proceed to just pay out everyone that still had cards out without actually counting up the cards to make sure noone busted.

He got caught by one dealer, and he just played it off like he miss counted and didnt realize he busted. Pretty slick / mischievous of him. I'd never try it, but found it interesting.

Anyone have any experience in this? Seems pretty dangerous to me, I feel like you get caught doing that too many times and they will kick you out promptly
I don't think that's cheating. Cheating is altering the game somehow so as to change the outcome of the game. Since the dealer checks the cards you aren't altering the outcome of the game. Dealer sloppiness is dealer sloppiness. I think it might be a viable AP strategy.

I wouldn't do it excessively as they might get pissed and kick you out once they realize you're doing it on purpose. Getting drunk might make it look less like you are doing it purposely. Also only doing it on you're 22s and 23s.
 
#3
Red

yesiamred said:
I personally feel it is not cheating either and actually employ this strategy on occassion. Sometimes the dealers catch it sometimes they don’t; I just bat my eyes, play the dumb and unknowledgeable female...ooops, my bad.
I do however choose and pick certain types of dealer that I feel are better candidates if ya catch my drift.
Just one of the benefits of being a very attractive Redhead:cool::grin:;):laugh:

Actually, I have had the dealer on several occasions tell a player tucking a bust that, "if that happens again you will have to go play a shoe game," in a very no nonsense tone.

Hitting after a bust will also raise the ire' of a dealer on the DD, do it once ok, do it twice you may find yourself off the DD and on the shoe.

CP
 

HockeXpert

Well-Known Member
#4
S2krazy03 said:
So the other day I was at the tables and I saw this kid who was sitting in center field. This game was a double deck pitch game where the cards are dealt face down, which is the only time I can see this working. Either the kid was just acting like he was quite slow, or he actually was slow, but many times I saw that he would tuck his hand when the dealer had a bust card out and he drew a bust, Im guessing hoping that the dealer would bust, and then would proceed to just pay out everyone that still had cards out without actually counting up the cards to make sure noone busted.

He got caught by one dealer, and he just played it off like he miss counted and didnt realize he busted. Pretty slick / mischievous of him. I'd never try it, but found it interesting.

Anyone have any experience in this? Seems pretty dangerous to me, I feel like you get caught doing that too many times and they will kick you out promptly
Absolutely not cheating. It is the casino's responsibility to do the math and verify the totals. I wouldn't go overboard and save it for the 5+ card hands you get.

I've seen people playing that were either too mentally/physically challenged or two intoxicated to play yet the casino eagerly accepts their action.
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#7
HockeXpert said:
Absolutely not cheating. It is the casino's responsibility to do the math and verify the totals. I wouldn't go overboard and save it for the 5+ card hands you get.
.
So if I can mark cards and get away with it, that means I'm not cheating? :confused: After all, it's the casinos responsibility to ALSO make sure no one's marking cards! :cool:

Hard to believe; the consensus so far seems to be of the opinion that purposely defrauding someone is somehow NOT cheating. :rolleyes:

This does not necessarily mean that I disapprove of someone who makes this move once in a while. ;)
 

Wookets

Well-Known Member
#8
Sucker said:
So if I can mark cards and get away with it, that means I'm not cheating? :confused: After all, it's the casinos responsibility to ALSO make sure no one's marking cards! :cool:

Hard to believe; the consensus so far seems to be of the opinion that purposely defrauding someone is somehow NOT cheating. :rolleyes:

This does not necessarily mean that I disapprove of someone who makes this move once in a while. ;)
I think the key difference between these two moves is that with marking, there's clear physical proof of cheating (whether it's intentional or not). In the case of this move, it may be intentional, it may not be, but the evidence is in the player's heads, safe from the casinos.
 

HockeXpert

Well-Known Member
#9
Sucker said:
So if I can mark cards and get away with it, that means I'm not cheating? :confused: After all, it's the casinos responsibility to ALSO make sure no one's marking cards! :cool:

Hard to believe; the consensus so far seems to be of the opinion that purposely defrauding someone is somehow NOT cheating. :rolleyes:

This does not necessarily mean that I disapprove of someone who makes this move once in a while. ;)
Nice try.:laugh: You will go to jail for marking cards but you won't be arrested for adding incorrectly. What's the charge going to be? Poor math skills? Even if you announce to the table that you have 22 and tuck your cards, they aren't going to backroom you.
 
#10
HockeXpert said:
Nice try.:laugh: You will go to jail for marking cards but you won't be arrested for adding incorrectly. What's the charge going to be? Poor math skills? Even if you announce to the table that you have 22 and tuck your cards, they aren't going to backroom you.
I am not going to weigh in on this issue but I find it interesting that so many people seem to equate cheating with doing something that is illegal or even provably illegal. To me cheating and breaking the law are two different things that have some overlap. If you are going to cheat at least have the stones to call it cheating. It's not like you will go to jail for a reality check. Remember my comment was independent of this issue. Just an observation on how many posters feel about "grey" areas when it comes to legality that really aren't that grey when you talk about cheating.
 

Jack_Black

Well-Known Member
#12
psyduck said:
I have seen kids cheating by trying hard to see the hole card!
how is that outright cheating? but I do agree that holecarding and a quite a few other AP techniques are in the grey area of cheating/APing.

Let's say you go the grocery store and notice that a clerk has poor eye sight/poor math skills, whatever. but every time you use that clerk, s/he always misses the item you hide from them, by hiding it under/behind another item. Or maybe she always gives you too much change when you give her an odd amount, whatever. So you decide that you will only use her whenever you shop at that store. Is that cheating or no?
 
#13
Jack_Black said:
how is that outright cheating? but I do agree that holecarding and a quite a few other AP techniques are in the grey area of cheating/APing.

Let's say you go the grocery store and notice that a clerk has poor eye sight/poor math skills, whatever. but every time you use that clerk, s/he always misses the item you hide from them, by hiding it under/behind another item. Or maybe she always gives you too much change when you give her an odd amount, whatever. So you decide that you will only use her whenever you shop at that store. Is that cheating or no?
That is not cheating. It is stealing.
 

HockeXpert

Well-Known Member
#14
tthree said:
I am not going to weigh in on this issue but I find it interesting that so many people seem to equate cheating with doing something that is illegal or even provably illegal. To me cheating and breaking the law are two different things that have some overlap. If you are going to cheat at least have the stones to call it cheating. It's not like you will go to jail for a reality check. Remember my comment was independent of this issue. Just an observation on how many posters feel about "grey" areas when it comes to legality that really aren't that grey when you talk about cheating.
You got me there tthree. This is a legal form of cheating similar to the free hit. You get a 4+ card 17, scratch for a hit and then see what the next card is. A-4, you tuck. 5+ you turn your cards over and say "oops, I thought that was 16. I would never hit hard 17" and see what happens. Neither move will get you jail time but are forms of "legal" cheating.

I normally equate cheating with jail time but there is a grey area that includes cheating.
 
#15
I worked the graveyard shift in a gas station when I was in college. The station had 1 pump that would pump gas without registering anything on the electronic readout if someone else was also pumping regular unleaded gas. I told the owners after someone tried to pay for the gas they pumped but the pump said they didn't pump any. The owners said they would rather giove the gas away when it was busy than have customers go to the other 2 stations on the corner. I put an out of order sign up for my shift since it was never crowded. A customer came up yelling at me like you wouldn't believe. He said he had gotten gas out of that pump every time he needed it for years and was really pissed it was closed. I told him just use on of the other 5 pumps that were available. This scum had stolen gas from my bosses for 2 years and was spitting mad because he had to pay for it ONE DAY. Some people are just lowlifes.
 

SWFL Blackjack

Well-Known Member
#16
I don't think this practice is cheating, however, I do think it would be considered fraud if the player's intent was to get paid on losing hands. According to Nevada gaming law NRS 465.070 Fraudulent acts:

It is unlawful for any person to claim, collect or take, or attempt to claim, collect or take, money or anything of value in or from a gambling game, with intent to defraud, without having made a wager contingent thereon, or to claim, collect or take an amount greater than the amount won.

I agree that it is the casino's responsibility to check a player's hand prior to paying on the wager, however, I think a casino may have a strong case if they tried to take it to court and were able to prove intent.


Nevada Gaming Laws: http://www.qfit.com/nevada-gambling-laws.htm
 

HockeXpert

Well-Known Member
#17
SWFL Blackjack said:
I don't think this practice is cheating, however, I do think it would be considered fraud if the player's intent was to get paid on losing hands. According to Nevada gaming law NRS 465.070 Fraudulent acts:

It is unlawful for any person to claim, collect or take, or attempt to claim, collect or take, money or anything of value in or from a gambling game, with intent to defraud, without having made a wager contingent thereon, or to claim, collect or take an amount greater than the amount won.
You better return all those mispays you have collected over the years.:eek:
 

Jack_Black

Well-Known Member
#19
HockeXpert said:
You got me there tthree. This is a legal form of cheating similar to the free hit. You get a 4+ card 17, scratch for a hit and then see what the next card is. A-4, you tuck. 5+ you turn your cards over and say "oops, I thought that was 16. I would never hit hard 17" and see what happens. Neither move will get you jail time but are forms of "legal" cheating.

I normally equate cheating with jail time but there is a grey area that includes cheating.
And THAT is shot taking:laugh:
 

blackriver

Well-Known Member
#20
HockeXpert said:
You got me there tthree. This is a legal form of cheating similar to the free hit. You get a 4+ card 17, scratch for a hit and then see what the next card is. A-4, you tuck. 5+ you turn your cards over and say "oops, I thought that was 16. I would never hit hard 17" and see what happens. Neither move will get you jail time but are forms of "legal" cheating.
this happened to me once while I was just telling a story. It was my first hand and I never made a clear motion for a card. It busted my 18 vs 6, I was fumed and they wouldn't fix it
 
Top