Amazing theft story

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#2
The article refers to the State Gaming Commision looking into wether or not he was a messenger. It sounds ,to me, like he attempted to stage a fake robbery, not that he was the victim of a robbery. Even if it was a legit robbery, Gaming would have no jurisdiction.
 

Richard Munchkin

Well-Known Member
#3
I think you misunderstood the story. The guy working for Billy Walters staged a fake robbery of 400k. The gaming commission is investigating whether Walters was using this guy for messenger betting. Because the guy owns a (very small) piece of the company it doesn't count as "messenger betting."

But this is like you having your car stolen, and the reaction of the police is - Let's see if Shadroch has any unpaid parking tickets.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#4
I just went back and read the story again. I don't think I'm misunderstanding it at all. The Gaming commision is investigating if its rules were violated. They have no jurisdiction over the robbery so what should they do about it?

The police have no interest in if the guy was a messenger or not. They are investigating the robbery, and the Gaming Commision is investigating to see if its rules were broken.
 

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#5
Was this bad judgement on Walters part using this guy? I would think someone would have to be quite trusted to have access to $400k in company funds, maybe the need for beards is so great it's hard to keep everyone in check.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#7
Richard Munchkin said:
I'm sure 400k in cash is very tempting to some people, but Billy Walters is not a guy I would want to be on the bad side of.
Do you think giving this guy a tiny piece of the business might be considered a sham to circumvent the messenger betting laws? They should investigate whether the so-called partnership was really a partnership at all, like what "partner" rights did it convey? or was it just a pretense to get around the law. The Gaming Commission might still have a case. [Even though this is not addressing your OP.]
 

Richard Munchkin

Well-Known Member
#8
This messenger betting law is a misdemeanor spitting on the sidewalk kind of law. It was enacted because of Billy Walters and a few others. You can see that this is important legislation, a good use of the state legislature's time to come up with a law preventing people from making a bet for someone else. I'd love to know if anyone has ever been arrested or charged with this crime.

My original point of this story was that the casinos hate this man so much for being a winner that they can get laws passed to try to stop him, and when he is the victim of a crime their first thought is - How can we use this to try to get Billy.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#9
I know very little about this gentleman, but without this law what would stop the mafia or anyone from setting up illegal bookmaking rooms and funneling the bets into legit casinos?
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#10
Richard Munchkin said:
This messenger betting law is a misdemeanor spitting on the sidewalk kind of law. It was enacted because of Billy Walters and a few others. You can see that this is important legislation, a good use of the state legislature's time to come up with a law preventing people from making a bet for someone else. I'd love to know if anyone has ever been arrested or charged with this crime.

My original point of this story was that the casinos hate this man so much for being a winner that they can get laws passed to try to stop him, and when he is the victim of a crime their first thought is - How can we use this to try to get Billy.
I see what you mean.

BTW, didn't that 60 minutes documentary show Walters as good friends with the owner of the M Resort?
 
#11
aslan said:
Do you think giving this guy a tiny piece of the business might be considered a sham to circumvent the messenger betting laws?
Likely, but legal.
Similar to the way some investment offerings are sold legally by unlicensed salesmen who are officers or directors of the offering company. zg
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#12
zengrifter said:
Likely, but legal.
Similar to the way some investment offerings are sold legally by unlicensed salesmen who are officers or directors of the offering company. zg
I brought that up because sometimes IRS will rule that something amounts to a sham to avoid income taxation. If they prevail, that means more taxes, interest charges, penalties, and sometimes even jail. I know the Commission is not IRS, but they do have certain governmental or quasi-governmental powers, the extent of which I do not know.
 
#13
shadroch said:
I know very little about this gentleman, but without this law what would stop the mafia or anyone from setting up illegal bookmaking rooms and funneling the bets into legit casinos?
Interstate gambling. I believe it's still a federal offense to place an illegal bet across state lines. Someone in Nevada wouldn't need to go to an illegal book.

I'm sure illegal bookies do hedge their bets in casinos. It would be a very easy thing to do without breaking any laws in Nevada. I could take illegal bets here all week, and Saturday morning fly out to LV to place bets to cover anything I couldn't cover on my own with the handle. As long as I take a bigger vig than the casino I can be a big-time bookie with no bankroll.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#14
Automatic Monkey said:
Interstate gambling. I believe it's still a federal offense to place an illegal bet across state lines. Someone in Nevada wouldn't need to go to an illegal book.

I'm sure illegal bookies do hedge their bets in casinos. It would be a very easy thing to do without breaking any laws in Nevada. I could take illegal bets here all week, and Saturday morning fly out to LV to place bets to cover anything I couldn't cover on my own with the handle. As long as I take a bigger vig than the casino I can be a big-time bookie with no bankroll.

Sure. If you could get your clients to place bets a week ahead of time.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#15
shadroch said:
Sure. If you could get your clients to place bets a week ahead of time.
What would be the downside of doing this a couple days before the event, especially long-term bets like heavyweight prizefights and Superbowls? Travel expense? I had a bookie who was just the opposite. He would not take my bets until the day of the game. He was so paranoid from savvy bettors geting over on him by betting based on insider information. He once put me off until an hour before game time. Needless to say, I stopped using that bookie. I don't know how he stayed in business, unless it was just certain bettors he would treat this way. Some bookies will not take your bets unless you are a bonefide loser.
 

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#16
aslan said:
What would be the downside of doing this a couple days before the event, especially long-term bets like heavyweight prizefights and Superbowls? Travel expense? I had a bookie who was just the opposite. He would not take my bets until the day of the game. He was so paranoid from savvy bettors geting over on him by betting based on insider information. He once put me off until an hour before game time. Needless to say, I stopped using that bookie. I don't know how he stayed in business, unless it was just certain bettors he would treat this way. Some bookies will not take your bets unless you are a bonefide loser.
Game day is the sharpest line. The bookmaker has to know how to set a sharp line or move it when vegas moves it. You don't want to book bets on the dog at +150 all week and then show up in vegas to hedge your lopsided action only to find the line is +120.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#17
Brock Windsor said:
Game day is the sharpest line. The bookmaker has to know how to set a sharp line or move it when vegas moves it. You don't want to book bets on the dog at +150 all week and then show up in vegas to hedge your lopsided action only to find the line is +120.
That makes sense
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#18
Brock Windsor said:
Game day is the sharpest line. The bookmaker has to know how to set a sharp line or move it when vegas moves it. You don't want to book bets on the dog at +150 all week and then show up in vegas to hedge your lopsided action only to find the line is +120.
Better to have a partner who lives in Vegas.
 
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