Some wacky stuff, ASM shuffle tracking?

hawkeye

Well-Known Member
#1
At a local casino, playing a red chip table. There's a guy at the table who's a real jovial fella. High fiving everyone when he wins, hitting the table when he sees an ace, etc. He seems pretty nice too, if a bit loud and boisterous. He's drinking O'Douls like crazy, 4 bottles in less than an hour, and chain smoking.

But I also notice he's raking it in. And his bets are varying wildly. I was standing behind someone who was playing, helping them play, so I was able to watch the table pretty closely. I noticed a couple of times when this guy slightly increased his bet with the count going up...but not every time. Not consistent at all.

Then one shoe ends, and the dealer pulls the other decks out of the ASM. I don't know anything about ASMs or shuffle tracking or anything, but this next part amazed me. The dealer hands the cut card to someone else, not this loud guy, and the loud guy real nicely asks if he can have the cut card and try his luck. The other person gives it to him, and he puts it in. The dealer starts up and the guy is flat betting $5/hand for a couple hands. Then he sits out one hand. Then he gets back in on the next hand putting $100 each on two spots. He hits a blackjack on one and a twenty on the other. He shouts out on how lucky he is, stands up and gives me a high five and everyone at the table. He kept playing for a while, and I saw him make at least $500 in an hour, varying his bets wildly.

Anyone know if an ASM can be shuffle tracked? I'm not asking how, just if it can be done. This guy wasn't a lucky ploppy either, there was a method to his madness, and he was playing the part perfectly.

I wonder if it wsa Bojack?
 

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#2
I would imagine that some auto-shufflers don't do a very good job - or are broken. I'm sure it's possible, though likely very rare. Kudos to him.
 

hawkeye

Well-Known Member
#3
I guess it's possible it was luck, but seemed very unlikely due to the way I saw him playing. I don't know much about shuffle tracking, only read about it. But the way he was playing looked like what I read about, especially because it seemed like he was playing the part of a loud goofball while winning a lot.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#4
Normally I'd think it's crap, since even if he could track things through the ASM (which is an absolutely titanic if) it would seem like playing 2 hands at a crowded table would still leave him with too many civilians to mess up his game.

hawkeye said:
He's drinking O'Douls like crazy
... but that's certainly suspicious!
 

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
#5
I'm telling you, these ASMs do a quite unsatisfactory job with their shuffling.

On more than one occasion I have witnessed a crazy "multi-split" scenario played out with the same value card twice in the same pack of cards at an ASM table. First time with the gold backed cards, 8's split for four hands, the last of which was a pair of 8's. Sure enough, next shoe with the gold cards, 8's end up being resplit again.

I don't know how exactly to exploit an ASM, but for whomever can, I imagine they could play a VERY strong game.

If anyone has any insight they don't want to share with the public feel free to PM me :)
 

bjcount

Well-Known Member
#6
Blue Efficacy said:
I'm telling you, these ASMs do a quite unsatisfactory job with their shuffling.

On more than one occasion I have witnessed a crazy "multi-split" scenario played out with the same value card twice in the same pack of cards at an ASM table. First time with the gold backed cards, 8's split for four hands, the last of which was a pair of 8's. Sure enough, next shoe with the gold cards, 8's end up being resplit again.

I don't know how exactly to exploit an ASM, but for whomever can, I imagine they could play a VERY strong game.

If anyone has any insight they don't want to share with the public feel free to PM me :)
I can bet you he wasnt tracking. At the casino do they use a card reader to check for BJ and what is the min you can cut to? usually around a deck at most casinos. The table probably had 3-4 players at one box (bet) each? Drunken luck I doubt, highly skilled I predict.

BJC
 

hawkeye

Well-Known Member
#9
Steering, that's what it probably was. That makes more sense.

They do check for BJ at this casino, bjcount. They were being very lenient on the cutting though, at one point the person I was with got the cut card and cut less than a deck (or very near to it) and they let it go. Also, yes there were 3 other players at the table each betting one box, mostly flat betting red chips. This guy was also keeping two spots open so he could jump up to two boxes if needed. When one guy came up to a spot on that players left he asked the guy if he would move one over, because sometimes he liked to play two hands, and the new guy nicely obliged.

I'm still confused about what I saw, but I do think he was up to something. WAY beyond any skills I can even think of. Also, this is a place with NO heat, no heat.
 

Percy

Well-Known Member
#10
ace tracking

ace tracking?

Requires first base (and two boxes), explains sudden big bets, possibly very exploitable on a weak ASM machine.

He may also be cutting a thin slice to limit the amount of 'tracked aces' that then get put to the back of the shoe.

Can you remember if he was cutting from the back or the front of the shoe?
 

bjcount

Well-Known Member
#11
Percy said:
ace tracking?

Requires first base (and two boxes), explains sudden big bets, possibly very exploitable on a weak ASM machine.

He may also be cutting a thin slice to limit the amount of 'tracked aces' that then get put to the back of the shoe.

Can you remember if he was cutting from the back or the front of the shoe?
I don't believe it's possible to ace track with an ASM since you can not watch the shuffle, but your getting warmer (based on my conclusion of the players method). I would probably include Ace prediction as an impossible feat too unless you know precisely how the ASM shuffles. Come to think of it if you used 3-4 key cards and you found on a regular basis some consistency in the number of cards between them.... hmmm what do you think Sonny or Automonk?

BJC
 

hawkeye

Well-Known Member
#12
I haven't sat at these ASM tables long enough to get an idea, long enough to study them. But it's two only two decks, they just go back and forth between the two. So I can see how he bet small through one shoe just to get the chance at upping his bet when the next shoe came out again.

I do believe that he was cutting towards the front of the shoe when the dealer put it out to him, but I may not remember correctly.

BJCount, I'd love to hear an idea of what you think he was up to, but I understand if it's not for public consumption.
 
#13
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say lucky ploppy. That is the most plausible scenario. Think about it. 99+% of all players are ploppies. Then take that less then one percent who are AP's and how many of them have these highly developed skills? Add to the fact it was a $100 max table and the OP didn't really watch him that closely to know what was really happening. Other posters seem to imply he had 3-4 partners at this $100 max game as well? The guy (or team) wins a whopping (sarcasm) $500 after an hour spreading up to 2x$100 and this is considered "Raking it in"? Thats only a couple of lucky rounds over the course of on hour. Hardly a big feat. Even flat betting 2x$5 he could get lucky and win a few hundred. Maybe I'm wrong but unless you witness this same guy pulling off this same feat over and over again I'm sticking with ploppy.
 

bjcount

Well-Known Member
#14
suicyco maniac said:
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say lucky ploppy. That is the most plausible scenario. Think about it. 99+% of all players are ploppies. Then take that less then one percent who are AP's and how many of them have these highly developed skills? Add to the fact it was a $100 max table and the OP didn't really watch him that closely to know what was really happening. Other posters seem to imply he had 3-4 partners at this $100 max game as well? The guy (or team) wins a whopping (sarcasm) $500 after an hour spreading up to 2x$100 and this is considered "Raking it in"? Thats only a couple of lucky rounds over the course of on hour. Hardly a big feat. Even flat betting 2x$5 he could get lucky and win a few hundred. Maybe I'm wrong but unless you witness this same guy pulling off this same feat over and over again I'm sticking with ploppy.
You could be right, but let's look at the facts:
It was a DD game, ASM, two different DD's, old cards, .........
I didn't see anywhere that it was a $100 max table, $100 was the players bet .
Playing $100 at a $5 table, appearing drunk as a skunk would be excellent cover.
No one said he had 3-4 partners, I said there were 3-4 other players at the table, and he requested the cut card, and .....
Flat betting 2x $5 he could get lucky.... come on to win even $300/hr flat betting at $10/ round he would have to win both hands 65% of the time (guestimate) to even come close.

But again, maybe your right and it was just drunken luck.

BJC
 

hawkeye

Well-Known Member
#15
Table max is $500 at the red chip tables at this joint

Maybe he was lucky, but it was some odd luck. I've seen ploppies get lucky. I've sat next to people who did everything wrong and won, never doubled 11, etc. But this guy wasn't consistently lucky, and a few things he did threw everything off, like playing two spots at random times, ramping from $5 or $10 bets to $100 bets, asking for the cut card everytime, etc. Also, his reactions to winning were about a half second late, his loud shouts and his rounds of high fives. So I'm thinking he was either trying to act like a slow drunk, or just a little slow on remembering his act.
 
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