video poker JB 9/6

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#1
what am i missing here?

i mean i have the following for simple strategy from Wiz of Odds
http://wizardofodds.com/jacksorbetter/simple.html
To use the strategy look up all viable ways to play an initial hand on the following list and elect that which is highest on the list. A "high card" means a jack or higher.



1. Four of a kind, straight flush, royal flush
2. 4 to a royal flush
3. Three of a kind, straight, flush, full house
4. 4 to a straight flush
5. Two pair
6. High pair
7. 3 to a royal flush
8. 4 to a flush
9. Low pair
10. 4 to an outside straight
11. 2 suited high cards
12. 3 to a straight flush
13. 2 unsuited high cards (if more than 2 then pick the lowest 2)
14. Suited 10/J, 10/Q, or 10/K
15. One high card
16. Discard everything

Terms:

High card: A jack, queen, king, or ace. These cards are retained more often because if paired up they return the original bet.

Outside straight: An open ended straight that can be completed at either end, such as the cards 7,8,9,10.

Inside straight: A straight with a missing inside card, such as the cards 6,7,9,10. In addition A,2,3,4 and J,Q,K,A also count as inside straights because they are at an extreme end.
ok but practicing using winpoker notice that in the images below, winpoker is telling me it is an error to HOLD the ACE & JACK
but it allows me to HOLD the suited JACK & TEN
:confused: isn't that against the strategy outlined above?:confused::whip:
 

Attachments

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#3
Holding the suited Jack/ Ten has a higher EV than an unsuited Ace/ Jack.
Suited J/T has the possiblity of a Royal Flush, Straight Flush, , 4OAK, Fullhouse,Flush, Straight, 3OAK, 2 Pair, Hi Pair ect, ect, ect.
With an unsuited A/T all you have is 4OAK, Fullhouse,Straight, 3OAK, 2 pair,Hi pair.
The loss of the RF, SF, F makes the A/T the worse choice.
You'll get more winning hands by holding two high cards, but your expected value is less.
Follow?
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#5
Sabre is right

Hey sagefrog,
I believe Sabre is right. There is optimal play and just basic. Now that also changes ALOT when you have a progressive. If there was any sort of progressive attached to this game the J 10 suited is the way to go.!!!
Double Bonus poker is a good example of very small changes in strategy, to get the smallest of values. Sometimes it matters what the value and suit of all cards in the hand is as to what the proper draw would be.
Without really looking at the two differences win poker and WOO i , will have to say practice for the progressive strategy, say punch in the royal at 6000 dollars and you will be good to go.
But a nice catch on your part with respect to strategy. Have you compared the two strategy cards against each other?? WOO and winpoker?


Machinist
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#6
Machinist said:
Hey sagefrog,
I believe Sabre is right. There is optimal play and just basic. Now that also changes ALOT when you have a progressive. If there was any sort of progressive attached to this game the J 10 suited is the way to go.!!!
Double Bonus poker is a good example of very small changes in strategy, to get the smallest of values. Sometimes it matters what the value and suit of all cards in the hand is as to what the proper draw would be.
Without really looking at the two differences win poker and WOO i , will have to say practice for the progressive strategy, say punch in the royal at 6000 dollars and you will be good to go.
But a nice catch on your part with respect to strategy. Have you compared the two strategy cards against each other?? WOO and winpoker?


Machinist
yes, i believe Sabre is correct, apparently winpoker isn't happy with me using the simple strategy.
like for instance simple strategy vs intermediate strategy puts greater value on the suited ten&jack than the ace&jack unsuited, sort of thing, whereas simple strategy just ignores those sort of distinctions.
thank you for the info guys.
 

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
#7
A Bit Naive

Out of curiosity, what is the theoretical difference between basic strategy and optimal strategy?

And if optimal strategy can gain an edge on a good 9/6 JOB machine, why would anyone use basic over it?

good luck :joker:
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#8
The difference in EV is minimal. For example, the Wizard says his basic strategy for Jacks or Better returns 99.46%.
Perfect play yields 99.54%, so the difference is only 0.08% of your total action.

The comparison looks much worse though when you look at it another way:
With perfect play, the game costs 0.46% to play. With an inferior simpler strategy, the cost is 0.54%, an increase of 17%!

Fortunately, perfect strategy for Jacks is not very difficult.

The trickiest parts are the "penalty card" strategies.
For example, JT suited is better than KJ unsuited, unless one of the other two cards is a flush "penalty" to the JT.

In other words, if you are dealt Js Ts Kc 5d 3s, you should hold the KJ.
If the last card was not a spade, you would hold JT.

Similar rules apply when comparing AQ and QT.
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#9
There ya go

KenSmith said:
The difference in EV is minimal. For example, the Wizard says his basic strategy for Jacks or Better returns 99.46%.
Perfect play yields 99.54%, so the difference is only 0.08% of your total action.

The comparison looks much worse though when you look at it another way:
With perfect play, the game costs 0.46% to play. With an inferior simpler strategy, the cost is 0.54%, an increase of 17%!

Fortunately, perfect strategy for Jacks is not very difficult.

The trickiest parts are the "penalty card" strategies.
For example, JT suited is better than KJ unsuited, unless one of the other two cards is a flush "penalty" to the JT.

In other words, if you are dealt Js Ts Kc 5d 3s, you should hold the KJ.
If the last card was not a spade, you would hold JT.

Similar rules apply when comparing AQ and QT.
Ya took the words right out of my mouth.... LOL
Penalty cards are usually in a Double bonus strategy i believe. Am i wrong, i could be. Didn't think JB had that in a strategy. I suppose it could but damn , what could that be worth? LOL
Now Sagefrog don't worry about all this mumbo jumbo, we are going after progressives and we don't have time to worry about .001 stuff. I kind of know how you are and that voodoo stuff too. So don't go getting all complicated on me!!! LOL
Thanks Ken!!!!

Ya all take care

Machinist
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#10
Machinist said:
....
Now Sagefrog don't worry about all this mumbo jumbo, we are going after progressives and we don't have time to worry about .001 stuff. I kind of know how you are and that voodoo stuff too. So don't go getting all complicated on me!!! LOL
Thanks Ken!!!!

Ya all take care

Machinist
i'm just gonna stick with the simple strategy per our previous conversation, the strategy outline in this link: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=161386&postcount=1
errhh unless you point me to a specific different one.

not to worry, the voodoo stuff is only something that i'd use on my dime.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#11
ChefJJ said:
Out of curiosity, what is the theoretical difference between basic strategy and optimal strategy?

And if optimal strategy can gain an edge on a good 9/6 JOB machine, why would anyone use basic over it?

good luck :joker:
It's not a matter of cover, it's a matter of simplicity.
 

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
#12
Thank you all. I'd always used a list from ACG...believe it was from Jean Scott...but it sounds like good strategy is good strategy.

good luck :joker:
 
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