Thanks and dealing with Morons

mrbill

Well-Known Member
#1
First off I would like to thank Ken Smith for providing this site. I've learned a lot just reading the posts.

One of the things I was helped with was dealing with morons. I used to get very frustrated when someone would do something that I thought was stupid. Now, I just say to myself that's not what I would've done but it is there money. An example of something that would've driven me from the table before happened this last weekend.

There were 6 people at a $5 table. I was 3rd base. The dealer had a 5 up, I had 9-2 and the moron in the middle had A-4. He wouldn't hit even though the dealer made a point of telling him he only had 5. I of course doubled down and got the moron's 6. 17 isn't bad with a 5 up until the dealer turned up the down card and had a 6. The dealers next card was a 10. I paid attention to the first cards dealt the next hand. They were a 4 and a 7. So in this case if the moron would've taken the hit he would've had 21, I would've had 21 on my DD and the dealer would've busted. As it was the dealer beat the table.

Then 5 minutes later the moron had A-5 with a dealer 6 up. Didn't hit it but this time it turned out to be a good play, because the dealer got a 10 and busted.

Normally I would've left the table after the first time. But since reading posts here, I decided to stick it out since in the long run the mistakes will even out.

Good thing too, over the next 6 hours I picked up $500.00.

So, thanks again to the people on this board. You convinced me that while morons have an immediate impact, you can't know the long term impact which could go either way, just like the dealers hands.
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#2
Mirror Image

MrBill,

Wait until you're on the OTHER end of the stick. Happened to me a couple of weekends ago. One other player at the table and I was on Third just like you were. It was a double deck game and for two deals, I had gotten nothing but 15's and 16's and every time the dealer had a 7-10, I hit just like the Basic Strategy card tells us to do....and would bust. Nearly every time, it seemed like the dealer had a bust card down. I don't remember what the other dude was doing on the stiffs. But not a loosing hand of mine went by that this creep would say "Your're playing it all wrong...every one of them. You're taking the dealer's bust card!" I finally told him to shut the hell up or find another table. The Pit Boss came over finally and told him to pipe down or leave...he left. I ended up heads up with the dealer and got on a hot streak. Now maybe this guy was counting and knew more than I did. If so, he sure had a tactless way of letting me know and it truely offended me....no, that's too mild...he pissed me off!:laugh: Back in the 1860's, I'm quite sure a gun battle would have ensued! I guess the lesson here is that Basic Strategy does not insure that you'll win; it just maximizes your chances of winning or not loosing as much most of the time by leading you down the path of percentages!
 

mrbill

Well-Known Member
#3
I've had similar happen to me. A while back I was at a $5 table with 5 other people. One guy was telling everyone what they should do, most of the time before you did it. Then I had a 9-2 while the dealer had a 7. He said I should hit and and not double in case I got a bad card. I of course doubled and got an A. Right away he said "See, I told you so!", I looked at him and said "Put your chip in my spot, then you have the right to play my hand, till then it's my money and I'll do what I want." The rest of the table cheered at that and he left in a huff. Best part was the dealer had a 9 down and drew a 10, giving me the win with my 12.

Myself, no matter how much I want to, I won't tell people what to do unless they ask, Then I respond with "I would do ..., but it's your money and you have to play it the way you think is best."
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#4
People

Good policy in not offering unsolicited advise. After newbies watch your play for a while, they'll be asking advise and I don't mind giving them basic strategy calls.

However, there have been several times, especially on soft hands, that I've wanted to stop the dealer and tell the person next to me that I'll buy their double down if they aren't going to risk it <LOL>.
 
#5
Play at a higher table

Mike, If your playing at $5, $10 table you will get a lot of so called "morons". Many are just learning... so you can't blow up.....

Go to a 25, 50 table.... most people know at least the big mistakes... they may not get all the DD, or scerw up the spliting, but they will most likely know when to take a card.

Just my 2 cents... good luck,

and remember... MAKE THE DEALER BUST!
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#6
DH2Many

I VERY seldom let anyone's play impact me. Oh, it's happened a couple of times but that is a very rare occurance. I do understand that there are a lot of new players just learning the game at the low limit tables. In fact, I sort of enjoy trudging along, lending a hand when asked and generally having a low keyed blast as I enjoy the action without risking a huge bankroll in the process.

I've both observed and played at higher limit tables and, since I'm not an "advantage player", do not see that playing there just to weed out the number of mistakes made by my tablemates is a prudent move on my part. It's just a way to loose to the house a little more money at the higher stakes (it IS negative expection with just Basic Strategy and that's how I play.)

I don't really like to employ the term "moron" when talking about someone learning to play. Granted, I didn't sit down to a table before I learned Basic Strategy, but there are a lot of folks who do go in blind. If they loose enough and still want to play the game, then they are "morons" only if they do not learn some Strategy that is proven <grin.> But it is not something that I can determine (newbie or "moron") just from sitting at the table with them <LOL>

Oh....one more thing....how do you make the dealer bust? :eyepatch: That's what just about got me into a fight the last outing <LOL>


Dealerhastoomany said:
Mike, If your playing at $5, $10 table you will get a lot of so called "morons". Many are just learning... so you can't blow up.....

Go to a 25, 50 table.... most people know at least the big mistakes... they may not get all the DD, or scerw up the spliting, but they will most likely know when to take a card.

Just my 2 cents... good luck,

and remember... MAKE THE DEALER BUST!
 

mrbill

Well-Known Member
#7
I didn't particularly mean moron in a negative sense. It just popped into my head at the time I was posting.

Whatever you call them, they used to bother me, but thanks to Ken and everyone else on this board, it doesn't really bother me that much anymore. I haven't kept track of course but I would bet that about half the time it helps in the long run.

I also realize that the frequency of questionable play is higher on the $5 table, but when I play BJ my goal is to play as long as I can with as little as I can while enjoying myself. Sometimes the players at the higher limit tables are too serious for my tastes.
 
#8
What I like

Is a nice looking dealer, and nice looking cocktail server, with a couple nice looking ladies at the table. Makes loosing alot easier. And I hope for the day I can sit at the $100.00 table, till then, just hang with the low end crowd, and try to have gas money to get home. And I must also say this is a great site, great message board, and a nice bunch of posters.
 
#9
Sorry Mike it all came out wrong

Hey guys, sorry my last post I wrote Mike when I should have wrote Mr.Bill...
I guess i was the moron!!! LOL

Anyways I wasn't trying to make a dig or anything guys... I hope it didn't come out that way.

I spend a lot of time at casinos.. and time and time again I see people blowing up at newbies taking a card when they dealer should bust and staying on 16's. It all works out in the end... they help u and hurt u but you know what.... its their money and doing the math overtime it should make no impact on your game. I guess what i am trying to say is I hate when guys (or girls for that matter) are betting 100 a hand at a 5 dollar table then getting mad when buddy beside them is betting 5 bucks and dosent play Basic S.

Anyways, I wont't ramble on and on... LOL Good luck... shane.

Oh and how to make the dealer bust?? Easy... TIP HIM LOL
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#10
Cool

No harm, no foul. I didn't take it that way DlrHs2Mny. Actualy, I usually get a pretty good kick out of it when I see someone flamed because of a questionable play.

I confess....I got hot one night and have related the story either in another thread or maybe over on another forum. Won't bore you with it here. Basically, a guy split 10's in front of me when I had a 4-unit bet out on a pair of 8's. The dealer had a 6. The guy with the tens split either 3 or 4 times and ended up with 5 tens on the table i think. I drew crap for my 8's though one was an 11 doubledown that made to a 13 or something like that. The dealer small carded until she made a hand and beat the table.

If you play at $5 tables, you have to expect that.

I'm off to Kansas City and another marathon of BJ at AmeriStar. Y'all have fun this weekend....I certainly plan to <LOL>
 

BlackDog

Well-Known Member
#11
Mikeaber said:
Basically, a guy split 10's in front of me when I had a 4-unit bet out on a pair of 8's. The dealer had a 6. The guy with the tens split either 3 or 4 times and ended up with 5 tens on the table i think. I drew crap for my 8's though one was an 11 doubledown that made to a 13 or something like that. The dealer small carded until she made a hand and beat the table.
Sorry, but that is pretty funny...mostly because it wasn't my money on the table.

I recently taught my son to play using basic strategy. He has been having trouble with his math and I thought it might help. Amazingly, since he enjoys Blackjack so much his math grades have gotten better :)

Anyway, as kids do he decided to stray from the "rules" and started splitting tens and getting wins. He thought he had come upon the missing link in how to beat the dealer. It didn't take long before he started to see the loses piling up because the dealer would make a hand. Gave me another opportunity to bring math into it and show him the statistics of why basic strategy works! Now with any luck if he ever decides to enter a casino he won't make a fool of himself ;-)
 
#12
just to add something to the playing with morons theme, I was at a casino in Niagara Falls last night. This guy was relatively new to the game and was asking me some questions. He was not listening to the answers, just asking. He split a couple tens, he would stand on 12 against a 10 and hit on 13 against a 4. Basically play wiht his gut feeling all night. and he was doing well (ended up about 200 dollars ahead). But he took the cake at one point. He has a 9-6 against a dealer 7 and doubled down. Yup, a hard 15. Guess what he pulled? a 4. And won. Now, that move wouldn't have changed the table since he should hit it anyway, but it's always fun to see someone like win isn't it?

Mike
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#13
Tickled pink for 'em

Actually, it's fun to watch someone pull stunts like that SoBuMike. Fun to watch them win I mean. I sure wouldn't want to back his sessions though!

If you want to get some fun in....find a $3 table sometime and spend a couple of hours or more at it...if you can stand it! KC AmeriStar, 1:30am upstairs on Sunday morning! I think booze must fuel intelligence! I've learned from the players at those tables that I have absolutely no idea as to that which I am doing! It is amazing how quickly the brilliant run out of money.

I have learned a lot of things. One I learned this past weekend is that you should order two gin and tonics, Play one hand, sit the next out and drink both gins and order two more, play one more hand and repeat until they scrape you off the floor with a snow shovel.

I learned that doubling down and splitting is too agressive and ruins the cards for every one else at the table and I shouldn't do it.

I was disappointed though. One lady told me she went with her gut feelings on bets and hitting. Such a shame that it turned out to be indigestion because I thought she might be onto something!

I learned that the way to play at a table where I am the only man sitting with 6 ladies, is to take a vote on what you should do with a non cut and dried hand. I'm serious. This table actually took a hand count when someone had a hand that they didn't think was automatic. The dealer went along with it and counted the votes....it beat watching them take 5 minutes to decide what to do!

And, stupid me.....betting 3 red chips when everyone else was betting $3! Didn't I know that was causing the cards to all fall for the dealer? And, it was making everyone else nervous!

All of that actually happened Saturday night and Sunday morning. I had so much fun laughing that I couldn't tear myself away!
 
#14
I will admit that I often enjoy playing at lower limit tables because many of the players on those tables do seem there to have more of a good time than most of the people of quarter and above tables. I don't get too concerned with their sometimes unorthodox plays because that will help you as often as it hurts you so that is a wash. You do occasionally see some strange plays as well as some strange superstitions :whip: and that can be entertaining in itself. If it gets too much of a good thing :laugh: , I just find another table.
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#15
fingers

I forgot to mention this one. At the table with all the ladies.....when there was a particularly bad run of hands, they would touch fingers around the table...INCLUDING the Dealer! It was like a prayer circle! Don't get me wrong, these ladies were just having fun and none of them really believed anything was going to come of their antics....but they were getting a kick out of the antics! Who am I to disparage their techniques. They were winning....not money, but were being rewarded for their $3 with entertainment. I can think of worse ways to spend $3 <LOL>
 
#16
I had a lot of fun on a 10 dollar table the other night. I walked up $525 after 11 hours which is fine by me, but it was so much fun. I brought a rare bread of sarcasm. And then this kid sat down next to me and we were betting 25-50 a hand on the 10 dollar tables and using the 2.50 chips from the BJ's on $25 to double Down for less with a hard 16 against a 10. People thought we were crazy but it was good luck. We lost most of the hands but we dind't bust as much as you'd think. And it's cool to say I had the guts to double on a hard 16 lol.

Mike
 
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