Blackjack rules in eastern Europe

JohnC

New Member
#1
Hi,
Most casinos in Eastern Europe have these rules, and i haven't found a correct calculator for them:
The dealer stands on 17 and hits on 16.
You can surrender when you get the two cards, but not if the dealer has an ace. (I think no calculator has an option to input this).
You can split aces but only once and you will get only one card on both of them when split.
You can double after split (not on aces obviously).
You can double on first two cards.
The dealer only gets one card which is visible.
Blakcjack pays 3:2 and you can do insurance when he/she has an ace.
Any ideas on what edge (without counting) the casino has if a player plays perfectly and what is the basic play table (perfect play)?
 

SystemsTrader

Well-Known Member
#2
If I interpreted your rules correctly the house edge if you play perfect basic strategy will be .27%. That is a decent game, I assumed 6 decks. I can be more accurate if you can answer these questions.

How many decks does the casino use?
The dealer doesn't take a hole card but does the dealer take both your double downs and splits if she has a blackjack or just your original bet only?
Can you surrender against a dealer 10 before she checks for blackjack?
Will the dealer stand or hit when holding a soft 17?
 

JohnC

New Member
#3
How many decks does the casino use?
- 6
The dealer doesn't take a hole card but does the dealer take both your double downs and splits if she has a blackjack or just your original bet only?
- She takes everything if she wins.
Can you surrender against a dealer 10 before she checks for blackjack?
- Yes, you can surrender vs a 10, i don't know what checking for blackjack is.
Will the dealer stand or hit when holding a soft 17?
- She will stand.

Is there any way you could check what adjustments should be made to this table to play in this game:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php?numdecks=6+decks&soft17=s17&dbl=all&das=yes&surr=es&peek=no
(I can't surrender vs ace so obviously all surrenders vs ace become hits).
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#4
SystemsTrader said:
Can you surrender against a dealer 10 before she checks for blackjack?
LOL She can't check.. She doesn't a hole card.

Try this... http://www.qfit.com/calc.htm ( I get .414 percent house advantage for the six deck game.)

I did not look at the strategy chart.. but there are differences for no hole card games where dealer takes all bets on a 10 up blackjack.
 

JohnC

New Member
#6
daddybo said:
LOL She can't check.. She doesn't a hole card.

Try this... http://www.qfit.com/calc.htm ( I get .414 percent house advantage for the six deck game.)

I did not look at the strategy chart.. but there are differences for no hole card games where dealer takes all bets on a 10 up blackjack.
I don't get the double down on any number of cards option. What does it mean?
There is also no option that I can't surrender vs ace (can vs any other card).
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#7
JohnC said:
I don't get the double down on any number of cards option. What does it mean?
Suppose your first two cards are a 3 and 4. You draw a card and get another 4. It would be nice to be able to double down after that third card, wouldn't it?
 

SystemsTrader

Well-Known Member
#8
daddybo said:
LOL She can't check.. She doesn't a hole card.
Your right DaddyBo, poor wording on my part.

JohnC the house edge is .27%, that is a nice low edge and a good game for the players. There aren't many calculators which take into account the ES10 rule. The chart you linked to is correct, except for the surrender decisions against the ace. You will hit all those surrender hands against the ace with the one exception being the 17 v A you will stand.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#9
JohnC said:
I don't get the double down on any number of cards option. What does it mean?
There is a variation of BJ that lets you double down after you have hit your hand... say you had a 4,5 and drew a 2 for a total of 11. You could then double your bet and take one more card. (I personally have never seen it except in Spanish 21 games (Pontoon)).



JohnC said:
There is also no option that I can't surrender vs ace (can vs any other card).
There are adjustments but I don't know what they are right off the top of my head. In those cases I imagine you would hit to 17 if you can't surrender. It shouldn't make that much difference, since the Basic Strategy takes in consideration the dealer getting a blackjack after your hand has been played. A dealer Ace is not a huge disadvantage if she doesn't have a blackjack.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#10
SystemsTrader said:
Your right DaddyBo, poor wording on my part.
OK Systems Trader.. I may be wrong on this one... But wouldn't it be more equivalent to late surrender if you can't surrender against an ACE up? (As far as basic strategy against the ACE)
 

bj21abc

Well-Known Member
#11
daddybo said:
OK Systems Trader.. I may be wrong on this one... But wouldn't it be more equivalent to late surrender if you can't surrender against an ACE up? (As far as basic strategy against the ACE)
Not really. If you are playing LS then you know you are not playing against a dealer BJ, whereas when playing ES10 ENHC you could be up against a dealer BJ. (Dead link: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.p...urr=es&peek=no) - the early surrender version - looks fine for ES10 (at a glance..), as the poster said - all surrender vs A becomes a hit, of course with the exception of 17 vs A.

D.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#12
bj21abc said:
Not really. If you are playing LS then you know you are not playing against a dealer BJ, whereas when playing ES10 ENHC you could be up against a dealer BJ. (Dead link: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.p...urr=es&peek=no) - the early surrender version - looks fine for ES10 (at a glance..), as the poster said - all surrender vs A becomes a hit, of course with the exception of 17 vs A.

D.
I'll take your word for it.. I've never played this particular the game. :)
 

StudiodeKadent

Well-Known Member
#18
Heat = how intense a player's plays are scrutinized by the house in order to detect card counting

Penetration = how deep into the shoe the game is dealt before the cards are reshuffled. Important for card counters.

The rules you stipulate (6D ENHC ES10 SP4 nRSA) come to a house edge of 0.28% under correct basic strategy (I'd say 0.3% is a realistic expected house edge given its a shoe game). Basically, the benefit the player gets for ES10 versus late surrender (i.e. 0.16% I think) is cancelled out by nRSA (-0.08%) and ENHC (-0.1%)

In terms of expected loss, the game is basically the same a liberal rule Vegas Strip 6 deck S17. So its a good game.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#19
Lets try to be realistic:

It is a dreadful game if they are cutting off ⅓ of the cards and you don't have a huge bankroll and/or cannot spread 24-1 without getting tossed out.
 

bj21abc

Well-Known Member
#20
It's not quite as simple as that. You can't lump all of Eastern Europe together - that's similar to saying "penetration in the midwestern US is poor". Lot of variance out there.

I have not seen poor pen as a rule in Eastern Europe. 1.5 cut off out of 6 is fairly common, although 3/6 is common as well - as soon as out-of-town high rollers/bet spreaders show up !

My experience has been that rules are generally good, with uncommon rules you would not find elsewhere, and the negatives tend to be low table limits, heat simply due to casinos having very few BJ tables, and limited opening hours. Conditions tend to be more difficult in capital cities as western players choose not to venture out into the sticks.

D.
johndoe said:
That's been my experience. 3/6 cut off was not unusual (Prague).
 
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