playing w/ other people at the table

#1
Ken--a lot of times when I go to a casino, it's tough to find a table where I can play one-on-one w/ the dealer. Do you have any advice on playing w/ other people--people who are terribly inconsistent w/ basic strategy? Do those people affect my odds in any way?
 
#2
Who Really Knows?

It Is My Opinion That Other People's Play Does Not Affect Your Game. It May Appear To Have Devastating Affects, But Over The Course Of Numerous Hands The Same Bad Play Results In Your Winning A Hand Or The Dealer Breaking.

Try This Method: Play Ken's Website Game 10.00$ . Do Your Thing.
Record Every Hand On A General Ledger Sheet. Mark Each One As To A Win Or Lose And The Bet Amt, Dble Or Split.
Sounds Like A Lot Of Work, But If Your Here On This Site, You Will Find This Exercise To Be An Eye Opener.
Now You Can Examine The Sheet.
I've Done About 20 Sheets Of About 100 Hands Each.
You Can Now Review The Win Loss Ratio And The Bet Amount Affect.
Now Look Across The Ledger Tables And You Will Find The Same Percentages Horizontally As You Will Down The Column. In Other Words , As You Jump In And Out Of The Game , The Average Result Remains Very Near Constant.
Keep In Mind This Is Not A Stradegy To Learn How To Win, But To Wrap Your Mind Around "chaotic" Play On Your Left Or Your Right.
Now When You Play With A Group Of Others, You May Realize The Same "patterns" Occurring.
I Encourage You To Try This Just Once.
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#3
Dispelling myth #1

Myth #1 at the blackjack table: Other players are the table hurt you when they play poorly.

I'd guess that 90+% of all blackjack players believe this is true, but it's just not. Other players at the table cannot affect your expected result in any way whatsoever. It just doesn't matter at all that the idiot on third base insists on hitting every stiff against a dealer 6. Yes, sometimes that player will bust with a card that would have busted the dealer: The infamous "You took the dealer's bust card!"

Just as often, that player will draw the card that would have made a strong dealer hand. Believe me, it all evens out in the long run. If it really bothers you, feel free to switch tables. But don't fool yourself into thinking you're making a mathematical difference in your results by doing so.

If my explanation leaves anyone with doubts (and I expect it will, given how deeply this belief is held by many), post a response with your thoughts. This will give me a chance to finetune my explanation of this to satisfy the more skeptical players.
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#4
Mythology

I agree with Ken. It only has happened to me once where I thought someone else's play hurt my chances....but I think I was just steamed because I lost what should have been an almost sure-thing hand.

I played 14 to 16 hour sessions this past Wednesday thru Saturday. Most of that was from third base, and I heard it all....most of it directed at me by disgruntled players! Worst case was with just me and one other guy at a double deck game. The cards were falling badly and this dude was really dumping crap on me for hitting stiff hands against dealer high hands. Of course I busted most of the time on those...can't avoid that. This guy finally stormed off in a huff. It was a good thing because as soon as he left I stood up to take a couple of deep breaths and cool down. The dealer grinned at me and reshuffled the half played deck. The policy there is that on all dealer changes and empty tables, the dealer must reshuffle. I sat back down and went heads up with the dealer and won over $600 in three or four shuffles.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose.
 
#5
Does # of other players affect your advantage?

I've only made one trip so far, and I heard this myth quite a bit. However without a proof or simiulation showing otherwise my gut feeling is Ken is right and it is only a myth for the reasons stated.

On a similar point though: Does the simple number of other players at the table affect your statistical advantage (for better or for worse) regardless of their play styles?

And wouldn't the additional cover provided by a full table of players be advantageous to a counter who wants as little attention paid to him as possible?

Overall do the proffesional players reading this prefer to play 1-on-1 with the deal or with a 1/2full or full table?

RavenSlay3r
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#6
It's a tradeoff

Playing at full tables means less attention from the pit, but also fewer hands per hour. For a player with an advantage, that means less profit. So, it's a tradeoff.
 
#7
One of the main reasons that this myth perpetuates itself has to do more with psychology than math. A player making unorthodox plays will indeed help you as often as they hurt you. The math tells you that. However, most gamblers will remember the times they were hurt much more vividly than the times they were helped if they even notice those times they were helped. A second factor is that many people like to shift the blame for a loss onto someone or something other than themselves. They win because of their own good play but lose because of bad luck, bad play by others, dealer changes, etc.

In my opinion, the biggest harm an unorthodox player does is when their off-the-wall play gets your own equilibrium on tilt. It is hard to play your best game if you are constantly wondering what crazy move someone else is going to make. If you find yourself worrying more about another player's decisions instead of your own, it might be a good idea to find a table with less distractions so that you can stay on an even keel. Even though I know that mathmatically the helps and hurts should balance out over the long haul, I occasionally have to take that action just to make my gaming experience more enjoyable. :joker:
 
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