Next Weekend in Vegas.

mdlbj

Well-Known Member
#1
MIT_Mike And Mr J are having a seminar in Vegas next weekend.. I'm going to be there to see if I can improve my game.. I thought about it a bit this week and am kinda in Aw.. Its like going from little league to the NFL.. Should be a good time.. These guys have been very helpful over the last year as far as answering some difficult questions on their forum.. What are some thoughts that you guys have?
 
#3
mdlbj said:
MIT_Mike And Mr J are having a seminar in Vegas next weekend.. I'm going to be there to see if I can improve my game.. I thought about it a bit this week and am kinda in Aw.. Its like going from little league to the NFL.. Should be a good time.. These guys have been very helpful over the last year as far as answering some difficult questions on their forum.. What are some thoughts that you guys have?
My thoughts are that you are one of the biggest idiots to ever grace an internet forum. $895 for a cardcounting seminar...you can't make it up...
 
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Bojack1

Well-Known Member
#6
EasyRhino said:
$895? Jeesus. It's cheaper to learn by making mistakes.
I agree it seems like a high price when you can get so much info for free and pay small amounts for some books. The big reality of it though, is how good are you at applying all that you read? And how good are you as compared to what level it really takes to beat the casino advantage? Most answer these questions with how many years they've been playing as an AP, thats not a good answer. Or they answer by how good they can perform on something like cvbj, thats good, but not the real answer. How many losing sessions have been chalked up to just variance, but in reality may be due to something else. Most counters never really know how good they are, or maybe aren't, because lets face it aside from chatting on a blackjack message board how close to you come to other AP's. The price of the seminar is not cheap, but I will disagree with EasyRhino that it would be cheaper to learn by your mistakes. Not if you make a career full its not. Not if you unknowingly are making them and never correct them. Not if you never learn the small but important nuances of the game like dealing with heat, or just importantly being able to recognize what is heat and what isn't. Etc.

The funny thing about these seminars, there is a stipulation when you sign up that if you can pass a Big Player checkout you get your money back. Hundreds of so called AP's have attended these seminars, never has even 1 person ever passed the checkout needed to play BP on the MIT team. To me that says alot. Granted there are many novices going to the seminar, but there are also many so called experts attending also. In my opinion just the skills check done on you would be worth the price of admission. Just finding out if you're lacking and in what areas can be the difference in a lifetime of wrongly thinking you're just on the wrong side of standard deviation. Some might think its stupid to pay that much for something that you can read in a book, but I think its like an investment compared to going to a doctor for a checkup. If nothings wrong you may be pissed you spent money on a doctor for nothing, but at the same time feel relieved that you're okay. Or on the other hand if the doc finds something wrong with you and is able to diagnose whats wrong before its too late, he just saved you from alot of grief or worse. Depending on how serious you are about playing, it sounds like a bargain to me.
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#7
I completely agree with Bojack on this one. The chance to get tested by people who have been very very successful at the game is invaluable. Any time you self teach anything, you will always miss small bits and pieces, that's the nature of self-teaching. The chance to have a field expert in whatever you are learning examine your skills and provide you with feedback as to how to improve could save you massive amounts of time, never mind the fact that in our field time is money.

RJT.
 

supercoolmancool

Well-Known Member
#8
Why can't anyone pass the Big Player checkout? What kind of exercises, skills do they test that makes it so difficult? I can't imagine a test that I couldn't pass unless it was purposely designed so that nobody could pass it.
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#9
It's just the standard MIT team BP checkout. Nothing more nothing less, it's just the vast majority of players/teams don't train themselves/their player's nearly a vigorusly as Mike and his cohorts did.
I can't remember for sure, but i think it was either 6 or 10 6 deck shoes with no counting errors, perfect playing decisions and perfect betting decisions. I don't even know if they included any indicies play - if they did, it wasn't much more than the I18. The last 2 shoes the examiners will try to distract you.
Everyone hears this and thinks "i could do that no problem", hell at one of their seminars i know they offered consideration for a major team if you passed the check-out, but everyone seems to over-estimate their ability to perform under this kind of pressure. Any person who passed their check-out, i'd be excited to play with. As much as i can pass that test no bother on my kitchen table and i certainly doubt that i make many mistakes during play, i still wouldn't say i'd be 100% sure of passing with them examining.

RJT.
 

positiveEV

Well-Known Member
#10
RJT said:
It's just the standard MIT team BP checkout. Nothing more nothing less, it's just the vast majority of players/teams don't train themselves/their player's nearly a vigorusly as Mike and his cohorts did.
I can't remember for sure, but i think it was either 6 or 10 6 deck shoes with no counting errors, perfect playing decisions and perfect betting decisions. I don't even know if they included any indicies play - if they did, it wasn't much more than the I18. The last 2 shoes the examiners will try to distract you.
Everyone hears this and thinks "i could do that no problem", hell at one of their seminars i know they offered consideration for a major team if you passed the check-out, but everyone seems to over-estimate their ability to perform under this kind of pressure. Any person who passed their check-out, i'd be excited to play with. As much as i can pass that test no bother on my kitchen table and i certainly doubt that i make many mistakes during play, i still wouldn't say i'd be 100% sure of passing with them examining.

RJT.
I think they also use ridiculous betting units in their test, it's not $5 or $25 betting units it's some really weird numbers, so it's even harder to do the math each time without error.
 

Bojack1

Well-Known Member
#11
asiafever said:
I think they also use ridiculous betting units in their test, it's not $5 or $25 betting units it's some really weird numbers, so it's even harder to do the math each time without error.
There are no tricks or weird betting units to figure out. Its just very thorough and strict. You can use whatever betting unit you're comfortable with, but the suggestion when taking the test is use $100 units, because you will need to figure the unit to the nearest 1/4. You do get a +/- factor of 3/4 of a unit for each answer. But you better be able to do deck estimation to the 1/4 deck or else you don't have a prayer to pass the test. You will also be tested on your payouts, if you allow yourself to be shorted once you fail. Otherwise you are allowed a total of 3 mistakes. But say you are off on the running count by 2 that counts as 2 mistakes. Actually just being off on the running count by 2 could screw up your true count, thus screwing up your bet amount, in turn causing you to fail. There is no shame in failing the test, nobody I know of ever passed it the first time, not even Mike, but its a good dose of skills reality.
 
#12
Why don't they allow KO? Is it not just as good as Hi Lo but 10X easier? If they are so paranoid of mistakes, well, with KO it is almost impossible to make a mistake. I assume that KO must have higher variance than Hi Lo. Is that true? I do quarter deck accuracy myself, but just for eyeballing practice/fun. KO has higher betting effiecency then Hi Lo so wouldn't it be better for those shoe games that MIT likes to play?
 

mdlbj

Well-Known Member
#13
lvhcm said:
My thoughts are that you are one of the biggest idiots to ever grace an internet forum. $895 for a cardcounting seminar...you can't make it up...

It is 899.95...

After the seminar, I am having a Q&A session with MR. J and MIT_Mike and will be posting it on their web site. Also, I have been given some leeway to add some more content. Such as blurbs, different counting techniques and interviews with some of the better known names in the AP community.

A section about game conditions would be great as well I think.
And of course, a link to this site?? Ken has some great info on Tournament play.

They want to be more involved in the online AP community since they can not really get out and play anymore. I agreed to help out. They are two of the most pleasant people you can meet and are willing to take the extra time to improve your game.

Maybe lvhcm, I could have a meet and greet with you and we can discuss why you think I am such an idiot? Or you could actually be productive and provide some helpful info on hole carding.
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#14
supercoolmancool said:
Why can't anyone pass the Big Player checkout? What kind of exercises, skills do they test that makes it so difficult? I can't imagine a test that I couldn't pass unless it was purposely designed so that nobody could pass it.
I was thinking something like this too. It can't be hard enough so that NOONE has ever passed it if it was completely fair. There are definitely people good enough to make 0 mistakes and have gone to this knowing they are getting a free seminar.
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#15
Bojack1 said:
There are no tricks or weird betting units to figure out. Its just very thorough and strict. You can use whatever betting unit you're comfortable with, but the suggestion when taking the test is use $100 units, because you will need to figure the unit to the nearest 1/4. You do get a +/- factor of 3/4 of a unit for each answer. But you better be able to do deck estimation to the 1/4 deck or else you don't have a prayer to pass the test. You will also be tested on your payouts, if you allow yourself to be shorted once you fail. Otherwise you are allowed a total of 3 mistakes. But say you are off on the running count by 2 that counts as 2 mistakes. Actually just being off on the running count by 2 could screw up your true count, thus screwing up your bet amount, in turn causing you to fail. There is no shame in failing the test, nobody I know of ever passed it the first time, not even Mike, but its a good dose of skills reality.
Have you ever thought about going just to go and pass the test? You're a professional, if you can't pass the test than who can?
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#16
Scott,
Knowing Mike, i find the implication that he's fixing these tests to ensure they couldn't be passed totally ridiculous. Mike is one of the most genuine and upfront people i've ever met and quite frankly, he doesn't need to.
When they were running the team they institued the same test and no player ever passed first time. So the fact that no-one at the seminars has pass is far from surprising.

RJT.
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#17
RJT said:
Scott,
Knowing Mike, i find the implication that he's fixing these tests to ensure they couldn't be passed totally ridiculous. Mike is one of the most genuine and upfront people i've ever met and quite frankly, he doesn't need to.
When they were running the team they institued the same test and no player ever passed first time. So the fact that no-one at the seminars has pass is far from surprising.

RJT.
Well I just figured that enough people have gone through these seminars that at least one person would be able to pass. I didn't mean to imply the tests were rigged.
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#18
Fair play, but the people that on the team were trained from scratch specifically to pass that test and as far as i'm aware none of them passed first time. So is it really that surprising that the people who attend the seminar struggle to meet the standard? There totally ridged standards were what made the team as successful as it was.

RJT.
 

mdlbj

Well-Known Member
#19
Im not sure if they will be offering a test this time but, if they are, I will give it a shot and let you all know how it turns out.
 
#20
Maybe lvhcm, I could have a meet and greet with you and we can discuss why you think I am such an idiot? Or you could actually be productive and provide some helpful info on hole carding.

Sure, sign up for my 5k holecarding seminar and you'll get all the info you need.
 
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