HiLo indice generator

1357111317

Well-Known Member
#1
The name pretty much says it all. I am looking for a HiLo indice generator that you can manipulate based on the rules. If there isn't one where you can adjust the rules the rules I would like the indices for are 6 deck hit on soft 17 and DAS.
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#4
Indices should be only a function of the game rules, but the value of the play change is a function of the game rules AND your betting ramp.

That is, no matter how much you bet, the index for standing hard 12 vs. 4 will be the same. However, if you play all, this play will have much greater relative value than if you Wong in (in which case the value will be 0).

Keep that in mind as you (presumably) calculate your personal Illustrious 18.
 

1357111317

Well-Known Member
#5
I found one in the FAQ but it only takes into account your counting system. It does not take into account the rules and such. Is there any sims that can take into account the rules ( I found two in the FAQ but only one of them worked)
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#7
zengrifter said:
Actually, MATRICES are also a function of penetration, which is why "precise indices" is an oxymoron, like govt-intelligence. zg
Why can't indices be calculated precisely, to as many decimals as you want, once you have defined the game rules, the counting system, flooring or rounding, to exact card or full-deck, etc?

It's just that one may have to, potentially, learn a new index table for alot of different games and a different index number for each play. No reason, if one chooses, why one can't learn index numbers to 4 decimals lol. It's just convenient to maybe call an exact 0.2 index departure "0".

They are only rounded to whole integers in the first place because they know the exact underlying departure point.

Why does the insurance index change for 1D or 8D from 1.4 to 3.1 if using Hi-Lo? Why does it change again from 1.7 to 3.4 if you use Halves? In no case does the pen matter since whenever the Index is reached, no matter when it occurs or how many decks remain, you make the departure.

But, yeah, I think when I looked up oxymoron in the dictionary the definition was govt intelligence :)
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#8
Kasi said:
Why can't indices be calculated precisely, to as many decimals as you want, once you have defined the game rules, the counting system, flooring or rounding, to exact card or full-deck, etc?

It's just that one may have to, potentially, learn a new index table for alot of different games and a different index number for each play. No reason, if one chooses, why one can't learn index numbers to 4 decimals lol. It's just convenient to maybe call an exact 0.2 index departure "0".

They are only rounded to whole integers in the first place because they know the exact underlying departure point.

Why does the insurance index change for 1D or 8D from 1.4 to 3.1 if using Hi-Lo? Why does it change again from 1.7 to 3.4 if you use Halves? In no case does the pen matter since whenever the Index is reached, no matter when it occurs or how many decks remain, you make the departure.

But, yeah, I think when I looked up oxymoron in the dictionary the definition was govt intelligence :)
If you look at the curves in the index charts at http://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm, they appear to be smooth lines. But, if you plotted the points with precision to tenths of a count, you would see the charts are not smooth at all, but very rough and bounce up and down. Gain or loss by count is non-linear. And many minor factors alter the curves. "Precise" indexes don't really exist.

Penetration does matter, primarily because of floating advantage. +1 deep in a shoe is not the same as early in the shoe.

The Insurance index changes because the removal of the dealer's Ace has a different impact on one deck than 8 decks.
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#10
QFIT said:
"Precise" indexes don't really exist.

Penetration does matter, .
Thanks I see what you mean. I guess I think I've seen index numbers to 3 decimals giving the illusion of "precision" lol.

I guess you're even saying one could even generate a different set of indexes for different levels of penetration to perhaps be "more precise" ? lol.

Anyway, I guess it's good to keep in mind index departures won't always predict the exact "right" play.
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#11
1357111317 said:
Are there any indice generators out there where you can change the rules of the game?
I don't know - maybe QFIT's stuff can.

I suppose you could run a sim with 1 index number and then run it again with another number and see if results went up or down. That would be time-consuming lol.

I think someone had a spreadsheet on it based on EOR's and some algebraic formula based on stuff Peter Moss? did?

Now u got me wondering how QFIT figures it out. Sims? An algorithm? :confused: :eek:
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#12
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1357111317
Are there any indice generators out there where you can change the rules of the game?

Kasi said:
I don't know - maybe QFIT's stuff can.

I suppose you could run a sim with 1 index number and then run it again with another number and see if results went up or down. That would be time-consuming lol.

I think someone had a spreadsheet on it based on EOR's and some algebraic formula based on stuff Peter Moss? did?

Now u got me wondering how QFIT figures it out. Sims? An algorithm? :confused: :eek:
i remmembered seeing this stuff:
http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/tcindex/tcindex.htm (Archive copy)

never really tryed that stuff out cause i just go by i18 and maybe look up indices in Wong's Professional Blackjack.
 
#13
Kasi said:
Why can't indices be calculated precisely, to as many decimals as you want, once you have defined the game rules, the counting system, flooring or rounding, to exact card or full-deck, etc?
Like I said - penetration is a factor. So is hand composition. There fore even the most "precise" indices are NOT precise. zg
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#15
Kasi said:
Thanks I see what you mean. I guess I think I've seen index numbers to 3 decimals giving the illusion of "precision" lol.
You will often see people post numbers with more decimals than are possible.
 

bjcount

Well-Known Member
#16
Kasi said:
I don't know - maybe QFIT's stuff can.

I suppose you could run a sim with 1 index number and then run it again with another number and see if results went up or down. That would be time-consuming lol.
It won't give you the results your looking for because each time you run a sim with the exact same indices the results will be slightly different. I ran 100 sims changing groups of numbers (ex: all +3, or -2, etc). You will see greater changes in your results which may provide you with the answers your looking for.

If you look at my post about ace side counts you'll see how shoe content of A vs T made drastic changes in SCORE.

BJC
 

bjcount

Well-Known Member
#17
zengrifter said:
Like I said - penetration is a factor. So is hand composition. There fore even the most "precise" indices are NOT precise. zg
When I ran the Sims mentioned above, just a 7 card difference in pen changed the SCORE on average of 4 points.

BJC
 

1357111317

Well-Known Member
#19
I found an index generator on Arnold Snyders site. You can customize the count and # of decks on this program but it doesn't say what kind of rules it uses. Does anyone know what rules it uses?
 
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