A betting and counting system that I'm working on...

#1
I'm new here, but I've been testing some new theories I have, and I want to get an idea of what people think about them...

I'm trying to develop some strategies for what I normally play live, which is 5 dollar minimum 500 max, single deck, dealer hits on soft 17, insurance is offered on Ace only, you can double on any two cards, but you can't double after split, and you can only split same cards...

My counting strategy that I use works this way (note this is only to keep an idea of my ratio of big to little cards): I keep a count of every card that's been played, I.E. if there are 4 players, I automatically know there will initially be 10 cards in play, and it's easy to count when people start taking cards... I then keep a count of every 10 or higher card played, and keep the ratio of small to large cards in my mind so I can adjust my basic strategy. For example, if 20 cards are played and only 5 face cards come out, it reduces the ratio of non-facecards to facecards from 1.5:1 to almost 1:1. I then will adjust my basic strategy accordingly...

My betting strategy is as follows: I bet 5 on my first hand then 15 regardless of whether I win or lose. If I win on 15 I move to 25, and then back to 5 after another win. If I lose on my 15 dollar bet, I play a variance on the martingale system in which I double my bet, but then add 10 on the first loss, and double that 10 on every subsequent loss. I do the same thing on my 25 dollar bet... This would mean the negative progression for each would be as follows: 15, 40, 100, 240, 500; 25, 60, 140, 320, 500. Even if my table max is higher I will never bet above 500. It isn't extremely common to go on losing streaks of longer than 5 in my experience...

In all the simulations I've been running I have NEVER lost money. My simulation bankroll is only 1,000, but I think live a 5,000 dollar bankroll would be ideal, so in order for this to REALLY kill you on a 5,000 bankroll, you would need to go on a losing streak of at least 15 for it to take a bite of 3,000 dollars... Simulate 10,000 hands and tell me how many times you'll go on that streak. Almost never, especially if you're adjusting strategy based on count.

I'm also thinking about tracking the 8s/9s so when I have a decent ratio of small to large cards, and I know that there are 6 of the 8s and 9s gone from the deck, it can give me some insight on how I should play a 14...

I'm just curious if people would do some simulating as well and tell me if they start getting the same results...

If you don't want to try the counting method at least try using the betting strategy and let me know what you think.
 

BAMA21

Well-Known Member
#2
I'll comment more a bit later when I have more time; but for now, I just wanted to relate the following: I chatted with a very accomplished counter a while back about doing a ten count only, similar to what you're talking about. His response was that such a count would be excellent for insurance; but that not knowing the composition of the non-tens could make other decisions difficult. For example, if you've seen 40 cards and only 10 of them were tens, you don't know if the remaining 30 cards that you've seen, and that have been removed from the pack, are high non-tens or low non-tens. His point was that, if you do have an excess of tens, you'd like to also have nines and eights to pair up with those tens, not fours and sixes. I haven't given this much thought since then, so I'll do that and comment more later.
 

BAMA21

Well-Known Member
#4
It certainly seems that it would be easier in single-deck than in a shoe (Have you or would you try it on double-deck?), and the side tracking of 8s and 9s would seem to alleviate some of my problems with the ten only count. My only question then would be that if you're keeping three running counts, wouldn't it be easier to just use an unbalanced counting system like Red 7, or even a balanced system like hi-lo? And am I correct that you use your progression regardless of the cont, so you only use the count for strategy changes?
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#5
I have to agree with Bama.....using Red 7 or Knockout would seem to be less complex and should give at least 80% of the advantage of a more complex system like HiLo.

Do you think tracking high cards will give you 80% of the advantage of using a true counting system?
 
#6
I'm not quite sure, what I'm doing right now is really just for testing purposes only before I move out and test it for real. It just seems more clear in my mind versus using the other count... I dunno, this to me seems fairly simple, I'm trying to do something where I don't have to look at every card and register a value to it. I DO count how many cards get played, but that's very very easy. Counting face cards is also very easy, doing a side count on the 8s and 9s is where it becomes a little more difficult.

However everything online moves a lot faster than real live tables do, at least in my experience.

I'm not sure if I'd try it on a double deck, I'm really just in a testing phase right now to see what would work for me...

I will also adjust my betting if I know there are is a high ratio of beneficial cards in the deck and vice versa, but generally I'll stick to my betting strategy.
 

BAMA21

Well-Known Member
#7
I'd want to play with it a little before making any real comments; but it would seem to me that it would be fairly unreliable for all but insurance without the side count of medium cards; and then you are getting into the territory of it being more mentally taxing, not to mention mistake prone, than a conventional unbalanced counting system.

I am going to have a closer look at your progression though.
 
#8
lessthanjed said:
I'm new here, but I've been testing some new theories I have, and I want to get an idea of what people think about them...

I'm trying to develop some strategies for what I normally play live, which is 5 dollar minimum 500 max, single deck, dealer hits on soft 17, insurance is offered on Ace only, you can double on any two cards, but you can't double after split, and you can only split same cards...

My counting strategy that I use works this way (note this is only to keep an idea of my ratio of big to little cards): I keep a count of every card that's been played, I.E. if there are 4 players, I automatically know there will initially be 10 cards in play, and it's easy to count when people start taking cards... I then keep a count of every 10 or higher card played, and keep the ratio of small to large cards in my mind so I can adjust my basic strategy. For example, if 20 cards are played and only 5 face cards come out, it reduces the ratio of non-facecards to facecards from 1.5:1 to almost 1:1. I then will adjust my basic strategy accordingly...

My betting strategy is as follows: I bet 5 on my first hand then 15 regardless of whether I win or lose. If I win on 15 I move to 25, and then back to 5 after another win. If I lose on my 15 dollar bet, I play a variance on the martingale system in which I double my bet, but then add 10 on the first loss, and double that 10 on every subsequent loss. I do the same thing on my 25 dollar bet... This would mean the negative progression for each would be as follows: 15, 40, 100, 240, 500; 25, 60, 140, 320, 500. Even if my table max is higher I will never bet above 500. It isn't extremely common to go on losing streaks of longer than 5 in my experience...

In all the simulations I've been running I have NEVER lost money. My simulation bankroll is only 1,000, but I think live a 5,000 dollar bankroll would be ideal, so in order for this to REALLY kill you on a 5,000 bankroll, you would need to go on a losing streak of at least 15 for it to take a bite of 3,000 dollars... Simulate 10,000 hands and tell me how many times you'll go on that streak. Almost never, especially if you're adjusting strategy based on count.

I'm also thinking about tracking the 8s/9s so when I have a decent ratio of small to large cards, and I know that there are 6 of the 8s and 9s gone from the deck, it can give me some insight on how I should play a 14...

I'm just curious if people would do some simulating as well and tell me if they start getting the same results...

If you don't want to try the counting method at least try using the betting strategy and let me know what you think.

Going to have to give that a go I dont get to play many hand anyways lately.


lessthanjed said:
Keep in mind that I only use this on single deck, and also that I am considering tracking the 8s and 9s for the purpose of being able to see what kind of small cards are left in the deck.
Love it. How did your stuff work out...
 

gronbog

Well-Known Member
#9
This thread and the other ones that you're bumping are all 13 years old. Do you really think you're going to get an answer?
 

gronbog

Well-Known Member
#11
Thechosenone said:
Love it. How did your stuff work out...
You asked a question of someone who posted 13 years ago.

BTW, you're not going to do any better here than you did at BJ21 and BJTF. People here are just as smart.
 
#12
obivously not. It dont matter I could post it all and the people in all the places are too conceded to uhhhh try it them selves.

So i will teach and be here and the other places and any other one I find. Dont matter to me. So disregard further communication with me.
 
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