How bad are these casino rules?

#1
Hi folks.
Iv just started card counting recently with the KO unbalanced system. A lot of what the book explains about basic strategy, insurance, surrendering, doubling down etc, i cant really put into practice because of blackjack rules in the UK.
Can anyone give me an idea of how bad these rules are?

- 4 Decks
- No hole card (dealer draws it after players have hit etc)
- Only double down on 9, 10 or 11 (total of only 2 cards and only hard hands)
- No splitting 4's, 5's, 10's and picture cards
- Two splits
- Split hand of 10 & Ace is 21, not blackjak
- No surrendering
- No insurance unless player has blackjack !
(not sure on penetration)

feel kind of **** after putting a lot of work into counting and finding out these rules.
is it still worth it? :(

Edit: sorry for double post!
 
Last edited:

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#4
Is double after split allowed?

Regardless, they are fairly crappy rules, which I understand are common in the UK. As mentioned, great penetration (what would be good on 4 deck? .75 deck cut off?) can fix a lot of other problems, though.

Even with just average penetration, you can still get an advantage at the game, but it would probably require a large spread or wonging, and the edge would be very marginal (under 1%).
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#5
4 deck games are pretty sweet, IMHO. None of those rules is particularly crippling, unless the dealer wins all bets on a blackjack. The insurance rule actually is the one that probably hurts you more than anything else. How far are they dealing?
 
#6
shadroch:
im not sure if player looses all bets to a dealer blackjack. iv been practicing with a casino blackjack game for the PC where loosing all bets to anything higher is standard.

EasyRhino:
doubling down after a split is allowed if the conditions are right, i.e 9, 10, 11

moo321:
the insurance thing really got me since its the most effective in the KO strategy matrix.
oh and dealer stands on all 17's & greater (if thats what you were asking)

These rules iv got are from the website of my local casino so i dont have any info on penetration or that blackjack wins all rule (i would of thought that was standard)
I'll ask them when i go :laugh:
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#7
Greg,
In some games that a dealer doesn't take a hole card until everyone has played out their hands,you would only lose your original bet if you split. Say you bet $10 and you got 8,8. you split and now have $20 in bets on the board. Dealer gets a ten for a BJ. Now you lose only your original $10 bet,and the other is returned. Same goes for double down bets.
In other games,you would lose both bets.
The second game is MUCH worse than the first.
 
#8
How much disadvantage do you reckon that would be, percent wise?
Its not something iv noticed in this PC game but iv got the rules set to 'UK' so i'll keep playing and see what happens.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#9
Well, with this sites basic strategy engine, a 4 deck S17, D9, DAS, no surrender, european no hole card game kicks out a house edge of .59% By no means a good game, but not as bad as I would have suspected. This result does not factor in the very slight negative effect of not being allowed to split 4s.

In contrast, a crappy 6D game which can be found in abundance in the western US (H17, DOA, DAS, no surrender, hole card), has a house edge of .66%

If, miraculously, a dealer blackjack only results in losing your original bet (not doubles and splits), then the house edge drops to .48%.

The limitations against insurance and splitting tens would hurt your results when card-counting, but they have no effect on a basic strategy player.
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#10
I'll answer this as we're talking about the UK games. Yes the dealer does take all doubles and splits against a dealer blackjack and that's a real kick in the teeth. What makes up for it is the good penetration (from what i've seen) and very easily trackable shuffles.

RJT.
 
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