Blackjack Switch

#1
Has anyone thought about back counting at the Blackjack Switch games? According to wizardofodds.com, the house edge is only .18% for someone who plays by the perfect "basic strategy" for that game. Might be opportunities to switch your cards and create tons of doubling opportunities in high counts.
 
#2
Hammer050 said:
Has anyone thought about back counting at the Blackjack Switch games? According to wizardofodds.com, the house edge is only .18% for someone who plays by the perfect "basic strategy" for that game. Might be opportunities to switch your cards and create tons of doubling opportunities in high counts.
I haven't bothered to learn BJSw because every table I've ever encountered had really poor pene. zg
 

jimbiggs

Well-Known Member
#3
Hammer050 said:
Has anyone thought about back counting at the Blackjack Switch games? According to wizardofodds.com, the house edge is only .18% for someone who plays by the perfect "basic strategy" for that game. Might be opportunities to switch your cards and create tons of doubling opportunities in high counts.
With blackjacks paying even money, I don't see how the house edge could be that small. Anybody know the actual house edge?
 
#4
jimbiggs said:
With blackjacks paying even money, I don't see how the house edge could be that small. Anybody know the actual house edge?
I believe the Wiz has it right. BJ Switch is a game I play whenever I find it. A lot of the northern CA Indian joints have installed a table of it. Had a fun experience at one: played two shoes and basically emptied out the tray. Left the table to play some slots for cover and a break, when I turned back around the dealer was gone and the table locked up. They barely had enough money in the cashier's cage to cash me out. I got the hell out of that place quickly.

Counterintuitively, if BJS is dealt with European No hole card rules it helps the player. That is because the player gets a chance to switch to a natural before the dealer checks for BJ. The Playtech online casinos offer BJS, and they got piggy and were dealing it ENHC for the longest time. This gave a house edge of only 0.08%. But Playtech also offers a cashable comp of 0.1% of all action, so you ended up with a player edge of 0.02% with straight play. They have since changed this.

Normally I use RPC but when playing BJS I use the balanced Zen count, because the devalued ace more accurately represents the value of the ace in this even-money-for-naturals game. Contrary to what other sites tell you, use the same playing strategy you would use for regular BJ. I don't have a good set of numbers for advantage as a function of true count, so I kind of wing it.
 
#8
I wouldn't recommend using that strategy

stinkus said:
Anyone still interested in this at the bottom of the following link is a strategy for this game as well as a calculator that will tell you when you should and should not switch.
Stinkus

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/bj_switch.html
For I believe they are making a logical error by considering the push-on-22 rule for hit/stand decisions. For example, they give as Basic Strategy hitting 13 vs. 2. If the dealer gets a 22 there is absolutely nothing you can do to win (other than switch to a natural). It's a push whether you draw and catch an 8 or you stand. If you bust your 13 you lose no matter what the dealer gets. Therefore it defies everything we know about BJ to play it differently than we would any other BJ game.

On the other hand the switch calculator applet is a good thing. I use it for my online BJ Switch play. After you use it for a while, you usually make the right decision on the non-obvious switch plays so it's good practice for table play.
 

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
#9
Automatic Monkey said:
For I believe they are making a logical error by considering the push-on-22 rule for hit/stand decisions. For example, they give as Basic Strategy hitting 13 vs. 2. If the dealer gets a 22 there is absolutely nothing you can do to win (other than switch to a natural). It's a push whether you draw and catch an 8 or you stand. If you bust your 13 you lose no matter what the dealer gets. Therefore it defies everything we know about BJ to play it differently than we would any other BJ game.

On the other hand the switch calculator applet is a good thing. I use it for my online BJ Switch play. After you use it for a while, you usually make the right decision on the non-obvious switch plays so it's good practice for table play.
Dealer pushing 22 decreases bust frequency, and that is one of the elements that determines BS.
 

Friendo

Well-Known Member
#11
Switch taking over my town

My local casinos are thick with these games right now, with decent cuts.

I normally wouldn't bother, but I have noticed many occasions when the normal blackjack tables are full while the Blackjack Switch table is idle or has one player. Enough that I am tempted to take advantage of the faster action.

I have read conflicting reports on the playability of this game. How flat is the learning curve?

* Note: A steep learning curve is one on which learning occurs quickly. I'm asking how tough this is to learn.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#12
Friendo said:
My local casinos are thick with these games right now, with decent cuts.

I normally wouldn't bother, but I have noticed many occasions when the normal blackjack tables are full while the Blackjack Switch table is idle or has one player. Enough that I am tempted to take advantage of the faster action.

I have read conflicting reports on the playability of this game. How flat is the learning curve?

* Note: A steep learning curve is one on which learning occurs quickly. I'm asking how tough this is to learn.
Have you found a BS chart that tells you when to switch and how to play subsequent to the switch? I haven't and I've looked at the Wiz's site.
Have you found a well-documented counting system including index plays? I haven't.

I think all these Switch games won't last long. The tables I see tend to be empty most of the time.
 

Solo player

Well-Known Member
#14
21forme said:
Have you found a BS chart that tells you when to switch and how to play subsequent to the switch? I haven't and I've looked at the Wiz's site.
Have you found a well-documented counting system including index plays? I haven't.

I think all these Switch games won't last long. The tables I see tend to be empty most of the time.
Plops go thru money faster at these games. Especially at the tables with CSMs.
 
#15
jimbiggs said:
With blackjacks paying even money, I don't see how the house edge could be that small. Anybody know the actual house edge?
Don't know the edge, however, before quoting house edge, I would be extremely careful about the house rules upon which that H.E. is predicated. Personally, I don't think the even money Blackjack is that big a deal given the player switch option, however, dealer not losing on 22 is an absolute killer. .
 
#17
21forme said:
...I think all these Switch games won't last long. The tables I see tend to be empty most of the time.
Cool! That's a game you really want to play without ploppies, if you want to get a lot of hands in. One time I had a drunk who thought it was outrageously funny to keep switching identical cards. :flame:
 

Coyote

Well-Known Member
#18
Automatic Monkey said:
Cool! That's a game you really want to play without ploppies, if you want to get a lot of hands in. One time I had a drunk who thought it was outrageously funny to keep switching identical cards. :flame:
Some idiots are so easily ammused and then you add alcohol... watch out! I think I would've left the table. Once I was up 20 units and this really drunk lady sits down next to me; she reaked of the stuff! I knew things were going to go badly so I just walked away after the next hand. :rolleyes:

Coyote
 

paddywhack

Well-Known Member
#19
Coyote said:
...this really drunk lady sits down next to me; she reaked of the stuff! I knew things were going to go badly so I just walked away after the next hand. :rolleyes:

Coyote
ESP???? How did you KNOW things would go badly. Poor players do NOT change your expectation.
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#20
I still haven't seen a viable strategy, besides memorizing full EV charts, and I haven't seen anyone publish EOR numbers.

I would do the work myself, but I'd need at least a few months of learning computer programming to learn how to sim a new game.
 
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