I got banned from Fallsview Casino Resort

banned

Active Member
#1
Hello guys,

I've been "banned for life from playing blackjack in Fallsview Casino Resort".

I asked on what basis, and they said they didn't have to give me a reason.

I asked for a written notice, they said they didn't have to.

Because it's 'private property', they said they didn't have to do any of the above requests made by me.

I spoke with the shift manager, in a very well-mannered nature, and he still wouldn't give me any information.

I read in the Gaming Control Act ( (Dead link: http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/en/isysquery/04dda9ee-357a-4452-a6d3-8ab532b3a38b/6/doc/?search=browseStatutes&context=#) ). Section 35 and 36 state that they must tell me the reason, and more so, put it in writing.

What action shall I take guys, I have money and the motivation (obviously) to bring these guys to court. I am here in my hotel room distraught, I've been playing here for 2 years and half, without any issues. I don't know what to do now.

P.S: I am allowed in the casino, I just can't play BlackJack anymore or its variations (spanish, and etc..)

Cheers!
 

victorino

Active Member
#2
banned said:
Because it's 'private property', they said they didn't have to do any of the above requests made by me.

I read in the Gaming Control Act ( (Dead link: http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/en/isysquery/04dda9ee-357a-4452-a6d3-8ab532b3a38b/6/doc/?search=browseStatutes&context=#) ). Section 35 and 36 state that they must tell me the reason, and more so, put it in writing.
I took a look at the link...imho, I'm not sure Section 35 is relevant, as it is "criteria for refusing an individual access to a gaming premises." It doesn't sound like they actually banned you from the premises.

And again, imho, I'm not sure Section 36 is relevant, as it relates to the refusal "to allow an individual access to its gaming premises in Ontario." Again, I would guess it doesn't apply since it seems like they did not ban you from the premises.

Sorry to hear this happened to you. Perhaps you can revisit sometime in the future?
 

banned

Active Member
#3
Thanks for the speedy response victorino.

Aren't the black jack tables a 'premise' themselves? The act doesn't define what a premise is.

And considering Fallsview is owned by the government [OLG (Ontario Lottery Gaming)], is it still considered a private property?

Please let me know,

Cheers
 

victorino

Active Member
#4
I'm assuming that the gaming premises means the entire casino property...or at least all areas in which gaming is conducted. Skimming through the regulation appears to support this, but perhaps someone more knowledgable could chime in.

Also, from the regulation, I would say that blackjack is a game of chance, and the blackjack table is gaming equipment located on the gaming premises.

On a side note...it's interesting that the process to exclude someone from the gaming premises is so involved/burdensome for the casino. Good for the players...
 
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banned

Active Member
#5
Understandable

I was thinking that, but one could still argue, in my case that they are still "refusing an individual access to a gaming premises" where blackjack is served.

There are other elements I think I can pursue too, one could be discrimination? Unless they give me a reason why, I should have rights like everyone else to play whatever game there is in the casino, especially when there aren't problems being caused by me to the players or workers.

I didn't understand your last sentence (On a side note...it's interesting that the process to exclude someone from the gaming premises is so involved/burdensome for the casino. Good for the players... )

I'm being as composed as I can, but I truly just wanted to not comply and make it a big deal and have police involved, but I was a gentleman and I thought I should at least see what legal avenues I have (if any), before making a fuss instantly.

I've had some 'heat' in other casino's, but fallsview I never had issues with, and suddenly I was surrounded by men wearing suits asking me to not play blackjack anymore, saying i was "coded for life".

Anyone with legal advice/knowledge, please help me.

Also there is another casino in my province (Casino Rama), will they be contacted by Fallsview, and because of that should I lay low before I start visiting Rama.

Going to this casino was a big part of my life, I have constantly worked on this hobby and have become very talented! it was something I was proud of and felt really good to be sticking it to the 'house', especially when I saw victims all around me.
 

Baberuth

Well-Known Member
#6
Getting tapped etiquette

This is usually emotional and much restraint is needed. At an Indian casino, which is often the only one nearby it means your weekend or trip is over, at least the BJ portion is. Here is what has been written and my experiences getting the tap.
1. Don't say anything. It won't help in any way except to give them a better lasting impression of you. It will also give them something to "laugh" and chat about during their meetings which means your name is thrown around even more.
2. If you racked them up big and often, they may share with other nearby
Indian casinos.
3. Causing a scene may also prompt sharings to other Indian locals.
4. Getting another ID is easier to use if you don't cause a scene.

Always prepare yourself for a tap. Should it happen, you will not be so blown away. Have plan B ready. In Vegas it's easy, but still sucks.
I am VERY familiar with Fallsview. Did well there and enjoyed the comps, dining, nice rooms and view of the falls.
Just across the border, just 5 minutes away is Seneca Niagara. Same games, nice rooms, comps. view and fine dining. The busy times are similiar and I don't think they share information (not positive). Baccarat is much bigger at Fallsview. If you haven't tried it, you will have replaced Fallsview right away.
If you are a HL player and win often, it is hard to hide in the northeast. Every little cover you can bring to the game will help. There are much more ways to cover at the 25 min. tables than the high stakes tables. You really never have to get tapped there and can win often. The only difference in rulea are 6 deck vs. 8 deck. The HL room has a pit watching everything. The 25 or even 50 min. tables have dealers and pits that don't know enough to bother you, if your cover is good.
Hope this helps and you find a new fun casino.
Please don't draw ANY more attention to yourself and ruin what you have worked and studied for.
Babe
 

banned

Active Member
#7
Comforting

Thanks Baberuth, your reply was very comforting and supportive... it is indeed an emotional time, had a hard time sleeping last night.

I don't think getting a new I.D will help, as I:
1. Stick out like a sore thumb, and I wont describe how I look (for obvious reasons), I think perhaps time will heal the problem. And possibly come back in like a year or two. However I did hear Fallsview uses face-recognition camera, so fake ID and time still won't help I assume?
2. Was extremely friendly with the dealers and pits and recognize each other.

I will start going to Seneca next, and will have to endure the border crosses from now on, I always heard it sucked there, environment wise, however if you say it's similar to fallsview, then I'm going there as soon as I eat today.

Other than going to another casino, can anyone advice me of my legal rights? Like I said, I do have a lot of money, and would love to hire an aggressive and respected lawyer.
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#8
Banned..............let it go!!!!! It's part of the gig.....Hey you lasted 2 years, that is a long long time.....
You cant really fight... If you want to fight a casino........TAKE it to the tables.....Fight like it is a war with them.....that's how you get even with them...that's what will make you feel better......
There are certain people on this site site that "LIVE" to crush casino's .....It's a wonderful feeling knowing you screwed them another day....
You should feel real good that you got them for 2 years....Move on.....
Also if you gonna spend money on bloodsucking lawyers.........why not just take that cash and really crush the tables.........????

Machinist...........Going back to war on tues. this week:whip::whip:
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#9
Whatever you do, don't sue them. You won't win, and even if you do, it'll be a Pyrrhic victory. Just go to the other casino there, or the Seneca, or Foxwoods, or Vegas... Lots of casinos in the world...
 
#10
Banned

I know how you feel and it can be very upsetting,,but each one gets a little easier, sorry to say.

Take time to think, find other places,,maybe travel.

But I am sorry for you, it does hurt.

CP
 

mathman

Well-Known Member
#11
Forgetaboutit

Just forget it, anything you do will only make things worse for you in the long run. Drop of the face of the Fallsview world and you may be able to go back someday. Seneca is decent and crossing for a Canadian is easy with a passport. Relax it happens...JtMM:cool:
 

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#12
banned said:
I read in the Gaming Control Act ( (Dead link: http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/en/isysquery/04dda9ee-357a-4452-a6d3-8ab532b3a38b/6/doc/?search=browseStatutes&context=#) ). Section 35 and 36 state that they must tell me the reason, and more so, put it in writing.
They have banned you under the trespass to property act. Not the gaming control act. Does a casino have the right to pick and choose which act it follows? That would be for the courts to decide but rather than take it to that I suggest you think about what you want to accomplish. You have not been charged. If you go back tomorrow and use your card they will probably send the suits out to tell you again you can't play. Wait a year and lose the card or get a new ID you can probably play worry free for a while. You would have to really push them until they charge you with trespass if you want to get to a court room, and then if you win what happens? Atlantic City? There seems to be very little to gain. You could try filing a complaint with the AGCO, or get their opinion on it. But they will likely give you the same private property speach... after all most of them used to work as suits for casinos or as legal advisors for them. I used to have a different view about protecting personal rights but fighting casinos in court about trespass isn't financially sound in my opinion. Keep us posted and good luck.
-BW
 

banned

Active Member
#13
Visited Seneca

Machinist, thanks much, your post fired me up, though I still want to pinch myself to wake up from this nightmare that the whole incident happened. I've befriended both players and dealers there and it's just different I won't see them for a long time, or perhaps never.

moo321, Pyrrhic victory it might be, but at least my goal is to make them think twice before they muscle around the next player, no one should suffer what I went through this past Saturday night, we are not cheaters.

creeping panther, thanks man, it makes me feel better knowing it'll get easier accepting that. At least this happened when I was very deep in the green, and my oath has been fulfilled when I first discovered blackjack and lost $1400 my first day. My oath was I will get them back, even if it meant slipping and suing them, thankfully it didn't come down to that, and for the last two years I've generated from them close to $90,000. My milestone being $100,000 .

mathman, I did visit Seneca today (Sunday), and it was okay, didn't enjoy the smoking inside the casino, and the whole thing felt like a warehouse, nevertheless they let me play blackjack, which felt good, but wasn't a winning day. Now I'm extremely paranoid, and surely I can't be blamed after what happened saturday night. I was wondering compared to fallsview, which one gives more heat, so I can be extra careful.

Brock Windsor, I've seen your posts around, and you seem to feel very strongly about the legalities involved, and I'm grateful for your existence, and more so here on this forum, thank you. I will google a gambling lawyer this week and see if there is any hope, and will also pursue the complaint to AGCO, my goal again is to at least make sure they don't continue to bully around players playing within the law, and if you are going to stop them from playing, then it should be required that they at least put it in writing, and for what reason... we shouldn't accept the lack of transparency. I'll be careful and see exactly how far I can take it and weigh out the results expected before going full throttle.

The few things I want to know is for how long have they been watching me? Just two weeks ago i started playing in the high limits, and generated handsome winnings. This was with my player card handed in. Could this have alerted their system to watch me closer? or was it just playing in the high limits that did it?

I used to be paranoid when i first began, but started to get comfortable overtime, and eventually started to feel invincible, especially considering I was very known and liked in the casino, but reality hit me hard on Saturday, and to prevent such situation, any input would be awesome regarding cover and the stuff I did to alert them, I don't want to repeat the same mistake at Seneca.

Thanks and I hope your week starts well guys.
 
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Baberuth

Well-Known Member
#14
High Limit Room = Heat

First of all it is nice to see you are a romantic having fun with other players, dealers and pits, but if you were doing well green chipping, it would have been better to stay there. Rat holing is easy in green and provides a false view to surviellance when they evaluate.
When you went to the HL room, you were under much more watch. The pits there have to review your play and better have an accurate report for surviellance. If your numbers came up, they had to ban you. I just wonder when surviellance got them, who alerted them and how long it took for them to say " We got him. Next visit, we'll give him the good news." ...and yes, they enjoy giving the tap. then they tap each other on the back and enjoy your pain and embarrassment! The more you say and show discomfort, the more they have to laugh about later and the more you will be remembered.
Keep focused on having fun at another store and it sounds like it will be easy for you to make new friends and enjoy them. If you can win as much without going in the HL room, do so.
 

banned

Active Member
#15
HL room

I believe the HL room played a big role, either they finally started paying attention to my play, or if they knew I was an AP, they got more nervous when I was in HL.

The reason why I went into the HL room was they discontinued the 6 decks in casino niagara, which they briefly had, and I couldn't foresee going back to 8 decks, hence why I would like to know if anyone has experience in both casino's Seneca and Fallsview, if so, which one is there more heat?

Cheers
 

NightStalker

Well-Known Member
#17
Imagine

The Chaperone said:
I'm sure you realize that many of us have been backed off 10s if not 100s of times. Imagine if we started a thread every time.
All of us start replying the same as you, what would it be like?
 
#19
banned said:
I was thinking that, but one could still argue, in my case that they are still "refusing an individual access to a gaming premises" where blackjack is served.

I didn't understand your last sentence (On a side note...it's interesting that the process to exclude someone from the gaming premises is so involved/burdensome for the casino. Good for the players... )
I just meant that the process of excluding someone from a casino in Canada (having things in writing, etc.) seemed to be quite involved in my novice eyes.

On the first point, under the regulation you provided, I don't believe any case could be made. It seems clear to me that you were refused access to specific games of chance and gaming equipment.

You were still allowed on the gaming premises in that you could play games other than bj and its variants...so, imho, no violation of the regulation resulted.

In any case, lots of great advice here and it sounds like the store across the border might be a good stop gap. Good luck in your future plays!
 
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