Vegas sucks

21forme

Well-Known Member
#1
Just back from my first trip to LV since June. I try to avoid it during the triple-digit months.

First sign that games continue to deteriorate was the Oct CBJN. Several reports of worsening pen. The higher-end em-gee-em casinos got most of my play. They had the best games and took big bets well. Playing on grave in the morning was very difficult due to the small number of tables open everywhere. Mirage had few tables open even on days. Otherwise, the Strip was tough to play - a lot of walking with little table time. One day, I managed only 2 hours of table time during an 8 hour stretch. Wasted an hour at Ven/Pal, backcounting 8 deckers and nary a one went positive. Speaking of bad games, I saw a 8D, H17, 6:5 game at Mandalay Bay with a $50 minimum and 2 suckers at the table!

Off strip casinos had some good games, but sweatier than in the past. GVR called out checks play at $100 and pit made a phone call at $200. RR also at $200 - on a $50 table! Palace made the phone call at $100. No phone calls, but stared down at Em. And no back-offs - guess I got out in time...

Anyway, think it's going to be a while before I go back. My local casinos are so much easier to play efficiently, despite some recent worsening of conditions, too.

KJ - you should have stayed in Philly! :eek:
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#2
21forme said:
Just back from my first trip to LV since June. I try to avoid it during the triple-digit months.

First sign that games continue to deteriorate was the Oct CBJN. Several reports of worsening pen. The higher-end em-gee-em casinos got most of my play. They had the best games and took big bets well. Playing on grave in the morning was very difficult due to the small number of tables open everywhere. Mirage had few tables open even on days. Otherwise, the Strip was tough to play - a lot of walking with little table time. One day, I managed only 2 hours of table time during an 8 hour stretch. Wasted an hour at Ven/Pal, backcounting 8 deckers and nary a one went positive. Speaking of bad games, I saw a 8D, H17, 6:5 game at Mandalay Bay with a $50 minimum and 2 suckers at the table!

Off strip casinos had some good games, but sweatier than in the past. GVR called out checks play at $100 and pit made a phone call at $200. RR also at $200 - on a $50 table! Palace made the phone call at $100. No phone calls, but stared down at Em. And no back-offs - guess I got out in time...

Anyway, think it's going to be a while before I go back. My local casinos are so much easier to play efficiently, despite some recent worsening of conditions, too.

KJ - you should have stayed in Philly! :eek:
Vegas is in such bad economic straits, it's a wonder they don't just stick you up and shake you down at the door. It really is that bad for the casinos right now. Apparently, they are stingily latching onto every penny they can.

I was just there is August and found great pen at Palace. Also, never had any heat with a $100 bet. OTOH, I don't backcount so much as you and a $100 bet coming in cold in a low min game would shake them up a bit I'm sure.

The em gee em facilities are only going from bad to worse, unless you play the hl rooms, but back counting would be a bear.

GV has always been quite conservative.

M watches but never seems to back off. I guess you could push your limit there, but I have never sensed a back off coming.

I noticed the same thing you did--the sudden emergence of 6:5 games in other than single deck. Another sign of casino desperation.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#3
aslan said:
I was just there is August and found great pen at Palace. Also, never had any heat with a $100 bet. OTOH, I don't backcount so much as you and a $100 bet coming in cold in a low min game would shake them up a bit I'm sure.
I wasn't backcounting there. I was playing green at a DD table.

Lots of 8D 6:5 games and other garbage games in the Party Pits. Speaking of which, I was surprised to find the dealers there doing a very good job, as long as they could see around their implants. I only found one of these dealers providing "information."
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#4
21forme said:
I wasn't backcounting there. I was playing green at a DD table.

Lots of 8D 6:5 games and other garbage games in the Party Pits. Speaking of which, I was surprised to find the dealers there doing a very good job, as long as they could see around their implants. I only found one of these dealers providing "information."
That's DD in Vegas. They're looking for the 4X, especially the smaller stores. You probably could have bet 3X to your heart's content. If they're going to sweat you at 4X, might as well bet 8X and leave.
 

Sero

Active Member
#5
21forme said:
Just back from my first trip to LV since June. I try to avoid it during the triple-digit months.

First sign that games continue to deteriorate was the Oct CBJN. Several reports of worsening pen. The higher-end em-gee-em casinos got most of my play. They had the best games and took big bets well. Playing on grave in the morning was very difficult due to the small number of tables open everywhere. Mirage had few tables open even on days. Otherwise, the Strip was tough to play - a lot of walking with little table time. One day, I managed only 2 hours of table time during an 8 hour stretch. Wasted an hour at Ven/Pal, backcounting 8 deckers and nary a one went positive. Speaking of bad games, I saw a 8D, H17, 6:5 game at Mandalay Bay with a $50 minimum and 2 suckers at the table!

Off strip casinos had some good games, but sweatier than in the past. GVR called out checks play at $100 and pit made a phone call at $200. RR also at $200 - on a $50 table! Palace made the phone call at $100. No phone calls, but stared down at Em. And no back-offs - guess I got out in time...

Anyway, think it's going to be a while before I go back. My local casinos are so much easier to play efficiently, despite some recent worsening of conditions, too.

KJ - you should have stayed in Philly! :eek:
What about the conditions during the week or off-peak times?
 

forwhat77

Well-Known Member
#7
LV doesn't suck, but the strip does. Vegas has some good games still, just have to search a little. Orleans is a good place to start these days.
 

Solo player

Well-Known Member
#8
Orleans

forwhat77 said:
LV doesn't suck, but the strip does. Vegas has some good games still, just have to search a little. Orleans is a good place to start these days.
Spread a few green chips there and see how long you last.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#9
forwhat77 said:
LV doesn't suck, but the strip does. Vegas has some good games still, just have to search a little. Orleans is a good place to start these days.
In past years Orleans games were not anything to jump up and down about. Pen was sporadic and rules not the greatest as I recall--no surrender, H17, sweaty pit people. Has something changed over the last year? 6 deck or double deck?
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#10
21forme said:
Just back from my first trip to LV since June. I try to avoid it during the triple-digit months.

First sign that games continue to deteriorate was the Oct CBJN. Several reports of worsening pen. The higher-end em-gee-em casinos got most of my play. They had the best games and took big bets well. Playing on grave in the morning was very difficult due to the small number of tables open everywhere. Mirage had few tables open even on days. Otherwise, the Strip was tough to play - a lot of walking with little table time. One day, I managed only 2 hours of table time during an 8 hour stretch. Wasted an hour at Ven/Pal, backcounting 8 deckers and nary a one went positive. Speaking of bad games, I saw a 8D, H17, 6:5 game at Mandalay Bay with a $50 minimum and 2 suckers at the table!

Off strip casinos had some good games, but sweatier than in the past. GVR called out checks play at $100 and pit made a phone call at $200. RR also at $200 - on a $50 table! Palace made the phone call at $100. No phone calls, but stared down at Em. And no back-offs - guess I got out in time...

Anyway, think it's going to be a while before I go back. My local casinos are so much easier to play efficiently, despite some recent worsening of conditions, too.

KJ - you should have stayed in Philly! :eek:
OMG! Don't depress me, 21! I am heading home to Vegas, tomorrow after 3 months away. It's ok. I don't mind vegas being a little sweaty. My style of play seems to counter that pretty well. I can handle that much better than crowded full conditions where you can't wong in or out easily and have way too much down time, which is pretty much everywhere on the east coast, even the new venues. Every place except that one little jem off the boardwalk in AC that has lots of tables and they don't manage to full as much. Much easier to move around a lot there. Plus it's just nice. But they have always been a misfit on the east coast.
 
#11
Yeah I noticed all that 6:5 8D in CBJN too. It's almost like they're not planning on there being a tomorrow. Or maybe they think that if enough casinos do it and stick to it, the gaming public will forget naturals ever paid 3:2 and it will become the new normal.
 

mjbballar23

Well-Known Member
#12
Automatic Monkey said:
Yeah I noticed all that 6:5 8D in CBJN too. It's almost like they're not planning on there being a tomorrow. Or maybe they think that if enough casinos do it and stick to it, the gaming public will forget naturals ever paid 3:2 and it will become the new normal.
sadly this is probably not an unreasonable assumption
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#13
I recently talked to someone who won't play BJ in Vegas since they switched from 2-1 to 3/2. He insists he used to get 2-1 on his BJs until the early 2000s. He still complains to anyone who will listen when we pass a BJ table. Nothing can convince him he is in error.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#14
mjbballar23 said:
sadly this is probably not an unreasonable assumption
My theory is that when economic times get rough for the casinos, they turn to their accountants who advise them to cut expenses (lay off employees, offer fewer customer perks, etc.) and increase revenues (tighten up the rules to squeeze out a few more dollars from their die-hard customers). Accountants have a tendency to ignore the marketing and public relations effects of some of their cost cutting/revenue enhancing measures. This is dumb, because they are making more money on a shrinking customer base, shrinking because of the very practices and rules they put in place to make more money.
 

Caesar

Well-Known Member
#15
Bad BJ rules are not enhancing casino profits!

From the LV Sun: "Blackjack games on the Strip were off 12.1 percent compared to a year ago, but craps rose 84.3 percent and roulette gained 77.7 percent. The win from sports books jumped 155.5 percent due to baseball betting,..."
 

BJLFS

Well-Known Member
#16
Caesar said:
From the LV Sun: "Blackjack games on the Strip were off 12.1 percent compared to a year ago, but craps rose 84.3 percent and roulette gained 77.7 percent. The win from sports books jumped 155.5 percent due to baseball betting,..."
Interesting. Do you have a link?
 

flyingwind

Well-Known Member
#19
21forme said:
Lots of 8D 6:5 games and other garbage games in the Party Pits. Speaking of which, I was surprised to find the dealers there doing a very good job, as long as they could see around their implants. I only found one of these dealers providing "information."
Flashing cleavage? Score!! :devil:
 

Jack_Black

Well-Known Member
#20
21forme said:
I saw a 8D, H17, 6:5 game at Mandalay Bay with a $50 minimum and 2 suckers at the table!
Not to rub it in your face, but I told you so!:joker:

thanks for the assuring info Caesar and MR. T. I knew that my theories were correct, but I didn't know where to look for confirmation. I held that theory since I noticed that ever since the 2008 downturn, a lot of different consumer industries cut back on promos, and sales when they should do the opposite and increase those coupons and sales. talking to a few business owner friends of mine, they tell me that money doesn't come in like it used to, but at least it keeps them afloat. some of the few businesses that didn't do that and stayed stingy, well they are now in business heaven looking down at us and protecting us. Side note, strip clubs I've noticed now charge extra to get a lap dance! $20 lap dances have now become $30 and the house charges $5-$10 to use the private booth!!! Strippers are also complaining that they don't make money like they used to. poor strippers. hehe.

The economic downturn affects everybody, APs and strippers alike.
 
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