AC player: Recommend me a count

#1
Hello all. I am new to the forum and I am also fairly new to counting. I have read Black Belt in Blackjack and KO blackjack and am strong on Basic Strategy. After lurking here for several days I have read most of the recent threads and am trying to decide what count system to learn.

I want to play in AC mostly (since I live in the DC area) so I expect the rules will be something like
6-8 deck shoes (wonging in and out)
S17
DAS
DA2
Late Surrender.

I was thinking of employing either the Ben Franklin Count or the Zen count but I have not mastered a Level one count yet. The count I had been working on previously is the OOP count but it does not seem powerful enough for the AC games. The count rarely goes high enough even in 6 shoe games to get a major advantage without a huge spread.

Would these be the two most appropriate counts for the games I am going to be in? Any recommendations on Ben F vs Zen? Any links or such would be very helpful.

Regards,
+EV
 
#2
By the way. I am somewhat interested in shuffle tracking and think that it might be a benefit to have a balanced count rather than unbalanced.

Regards,
+EV
 

avs21

Well-Known Member
#3
+EV said:
By the way. I am somewhat interested in shuffle tracking and think that it might be a benefit to have a balanced count rather than unbalanced.

Regards,
+EV
I am not familiar with the OPP count, but I do know it is a really weak count. If you think there is a good chance of you advancing on to shuffle tracking I would recommend Hi-lo. In a 6D game it almost performs as good as the Zen count and it would be easier to use with Shuffle tracking.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#4
I play AC and use KO. It's a good starting point and if you want to get into shuffle tracking, etc. you can always switch to another count.

BTW, there is no LS in AC.
 
#5
+EV said:
By the way. I am somewhat interested in shuffle tracking and think that it might be a benefit to have a balanced count rather than unbalanced.

Regards,
+EV
Well of course, if you have trouble with the mighty Ben Franklin Count, High-Low would be the next best choice. Keep in mind that in AC you are going to be constantly switching between 6D and 8D and with High-Low (or any balanced count), you play them exactly the same way.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#6
ac

I play in AC twice a week. I play the RPC. is pretty strong vs shoe games. I used to play the hi-low which is also ok vs shoe game. I dont know of any surrender games in AC though.
 
#7
kewljason said:
I play in AC twice a week. I play the RPC. is pretty strong vs shoe games. I used to play the hi-low which is also ok vs shoe game. I dont know of any surrender games in AC though.
Whoops. You are correct. Some how I got my wires crossed.

+EV
 
#8
Automatic Monkey said:
Well of course, if you have trouble with the mighty Ben Franklin Count, High-Low would be the next best choice. Keep in mind that in AC you are going to be constantly switching between 6D and 8D and with High-Low (or any balanced count), you play them exactly the same way.
OK so BF is a stronger count than Hi-Lo so I think I am going to give it a shot. KO doesn't appeal to me because it is unbalanced. I really feel like I have a pretty good shot at shuffle tracking. I have naturally good eyesight and it has been relatively easy for me to cut within a few cards (3 or so) in a standing 6 deck stack. I have not practiced as much with a spread out stack, and it is definitely harder, but I think I can get the hang of it. I want to start out with the right count rather than switching a bunch of times.

I actually practiced counting a single deck with BF while I was running tonight and it is easier than I thought it would be to keep track of the multiple tag values for different cards.

+EV
 

xxrenegadexx

Well-Known Member
#9
+EV said:
Hello all. I am new to the forum and I am also fairly new to counting. I have read Black Belt in Blackjack and KO blackjack and am strong on Basic Strategy. After lurking here for several days I have read most of the recent threads and am trying to decide what count system to learn.

I want to play in AC mostly (since I live in the DC area) so I expect the rules will be something like
6-8 deck shoes (wonging in and out)
S17
DAS
DA2
Late Surrender.

I was thinking of employing either the Ben Franklin Count or the Zen count but I have not mastered a Level one count yet. The count I had been working on previously is the OOP count but it does not seem powerful enough for the AC games. The count rarely goes high enough even in 6 shoe games to get a major advantage without a huge spread.

Would these be the two most appropriate counts for the games I am going to be in? Any recommendations on Ben F vs Zen? Any links or such would be very helpful.

Regards,
+EV
Hi-Low is fine for ac..... a couple things.... stay away from the single deck 6-5 games at resorts and stay as far away as possible from all harrahs casinos...... they're dumps with terrible rules wild west and showboat have gone to hit soft 17 along with all 8 decks
 
#10
xxrenegadexx said:
Hi-Low is fine for ac..... a couple things.... stay away from the single deck 6-5 games at resorts and stay as far away as possible from all harrahs casinos...... they're dumps with terrible rules wild west and showboat have gone to hit soft 17 along with all 8 decks
Crap. I thought I had read that there were some decent games at Showboat. I was hoping to play Harrah's casinos because of comps. I guess i will stick with the Borg until I have their black card then go get the cards everywhere else without actually playing there. Hopefully things will get better again after the summer peak ends.

+EV
 

geneticfreak

Well-Known Member
#11
The Harrah's properties can be ok in moderation. Showboat and WWW still have S17 tables with the Lucky Ladies. Of course they are side by side with the H17 tables, so you need to be careful. Bally's, Caesar's, Harrah's and Claridge are S17 and are all 8 Deck. You won't find a game under $25 at Caesars though.
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#12
+EV said:
Hello all. I am new to the forum and I am also fairly new to counting. After lurking here for several days I have read most of the recent threads and am trying to decide what count system to learn.
Have u given any thought to bankroll?
 

bj bob

Well-Known Member
#13
+EV said:
I actually practiced counting a single deck with BF while I was running tonight and it is easier than I thought it would be to keep track of the multiple tag values for different cards.

+EV
Very interesting! Hey Monk, BTW how does the BFC work with SD,DD?Have you simmed it for those games and, if so, how does it stand up? I had assumed that it was only designed for DAS games.
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#14
+EV said:
....
I actually practiced counting a single deck with BF while I was running tonight and it is easier than I thought it would be to keep track of the multiple tag values for different cards.

+EV
you practiced counting a single deck with BF while running?
huh? how did you do that.
er uhh i practice BS in my head while jogging but wouldn't want to try fumbling with a deck of cards while jogging. :confused:
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#15
Ballys (main floor) and Harrahs Marina still have S17 games.

I have a Borg Black Label card and the other places wouldn't give me a premium card because of it.
 
#16
Kasi said:
Have u given any thought to bankroll?
No. I honestly need to do some research. I figured i needed at least $10K but don't have that much. However, I do have a replenishable bankroll since I have a day job so I was thinking of just taking a trip roll of like $1000-$2000 (also enough to play poker since that is my main gambling activity up to this point).

Do you have any advice in this?

+EV
 
#17
21forme said:
Ballys (main floor) and Harrahs Marina still have S17 games.

I have a Borg Black Label card and the other places wouldn't give me a premium card because of it.
The first thing I was asked at the Trump properties was whether I had a premium card at any of the AC props. They said you can get their top card if you have a premium card at any of the other props. This was at least a year ago and may have changed. I am pretty sure that Harrah's works the same way.

+EV
 
#18
sagefr0g said:
you practiced counting a single deck with BF while running?
huh? how did you do that.
er uhh i practice BS in my head while jogging but wouldn't want to try fumbling with a deck of cards while jogging. :confused:
Actually, that is exactly what I did to learn BS. First I used flash cards to learn BS while running. Then, I used a deck of cards and the Arnold Snyder exercise where you assume the dealer has a 2 then go through the whole deck 2 cards at a time and say the strategy choice out loud. After going through the whole deck you repeat with 3, then 4 etc all the way though A. Then you can randomly pull a card out of the deck for the dealer and run the deck against them. Then you can work all pairs, then all soft hands. I found I could do the entire thing in one run on a treadmill. (40 min)

So last night I ran on the treadmill and just ran through a deck 1 card at a time and then two cards at a time with the BF count. Not as hard as it sounds. I am really busy during the day so any time I can double up two activities like this is +EV for me. Plus the timer on the treadmill is key in seeing how fast you get through the deck ;).

+EV

BTW: If anyone else is interested in trying this I have two pieces of advice.
1) stretch you upper back after running and try to keep your shoulders relaxed. You will not be moving your arms as freely and may have some muscular troubles since you don't pump your arms the same way and it is a little unnatural.
2) As you go through the cards you will have to find a way to shuffle. I hold the unseen cards in my left hand. Use my right first finger and thumb to remove two cards off the top. I then transfer them to my left hand thumb and first finger. Then I discard them to my right hand, one card on top and one on the bottom of the discards in my right hand. That saves me from having to shuffle later and is easy enough to keep from fumbling around too much.
 
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21forme

Well-Known Member
#19
+EV said:
The first thing I was asked at the Trump properties was whether I had a premium card at any of the AC props. They said you can get their top card if you have a premium card at any of the other props. This was at least a year ago and may have changed. I am pretty sure that Harrah's works the same way.

+EV
Sometimes they runs promotions for premium cards. Borg did it for quite a while. I specifically asked at Harrahs (and Trop and Resorts) and they said no. I've never played any of the Trump places.
 
#20
21forme said:
Sometimes they runs promotions for premium cards. Borg did it for quite a while. I specifically asked at Harrahs (and Trop and Resorts) and they said no. I've never played any of the Trump places.
I thought this was the norm but that was my assumption based on my experience. Not looking forward to having to try to get all these cards at multiple properties.

+EV
 
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