HE on ENHC blackjackswitch?

ycming

Well-Known Member
#1
Hey peeps,

Can't seem to find the answer i need, does anyone the house edge for ENHC blackjack switch ?(6 decks, DAS, DOA,No insurance but even money)

The casino do advertise the HE as 2.XX%, but i think that is way too high.

I also know that the HE differs depending on the switching i use the arnold snyder switch system, think he called it the WPCL system.

Thanks
Ming
 

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#3
I think it depends on what you read and who you believe. I've seen figures that range from 0.20% to 0.68% assuming S17. IMHO the insurance on BJs only rule from ENHC is only marginally detrimental, although I'm sure some will argue that's not the case.

In summary, it's reasonable to assume it's less than 0.75%, and not 2.00+%. This puts it virtually alongside BJ as the lowest HE in the house, and better than the PB table (although it assumes perfect BS - whatever that is - and no playing errors).

I've never yet got around to visiting the Empire in Leicester Square to have a go at playing it.
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
#4
Don't think the insurance rule affects the switch as all natural blackjack gets paid right away regardless of dealer up card!

But all switched BJ is counted as 21 only.

This defo sounds like a good opportunity :D as the casino don't think the game could be beaten ...... we been getting heat all day in newcastle in the blackjack table but as soon as we move to switch no half shoe cut etc etc :)

Ming
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
#6
Geoff Hall said:
It's approx' 0.2% in the UK.
Many thanks! No wounder the max in 2 different UK casino for BJS is rather low!

Newcastle Aspers - 2 - 25
Glasgow Alea - 2 - 50 (need to confirm)

Obviously, you need to play 2 box min

Thanks
Ming
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
#7
another quesition, With traditional BJ, with hi-lo per TC the advantage swing to the player by 0.5. Does that apply on the switch game?

Thanks
Ming
 

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#8
I wouldn't think it'll be a great deal different, bearing in mind the relatively minor differences in the rules and the less than normal BJ OTT HE (assuming 0.20% when playing perfect BS).
 

Geoff Hall

Well-Known Member
#10
ycming said:
According to this:

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/blackjackswitchbasicstrategy.htm

Using the WPLC system you will make just less than 400 switching errors which add 0.002% house edge. So the game is defo play able!

Thanks everyone
Ming
I find that figure amazingly low considering 400 errors albeit close decisions. I would personally have put the figure to around 0.2% rather than 0.002%.

I found that the count, per index, was worth roughly 0.6% up to about +3/+4 then it tapered down slightly as the count increased; as low as 0.3%, per index, for extreme high counts.
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
#11
Geoff Hall said:
I find that figure amazingly low considering 400 errors albeit close decisions. I would personally have put the figure to around 0.2% rather than 0.002%.

I found that the count, per index, was worth roughly 0.6% up to about +3/+4 then it tapered down slightly as the count increased; as low as 0.3%, per index, for extreme high counts.
many thanks for the useful info, i will have my max bet out at +4 anyway. So what is your view on using the WPLC (the link above) for swtiching decisions? IS there any better out there?

Thanks
Ming
 

Geoff Hall

Well-Known Member
#13
ycming said:
hmmm ... in the uk switched blackjack = 21 only and i have read that

"The switched blackjack=21 rule will add about .43% to the HE."

From - http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=14005&highlight=blackjack+switch

Is that true or not? Or you didn't think in the uk the switched bj is only 21?

Ming
The UK version HAS to have switched BJ's = 21 as the game is a 'Stand Soft 17' game. If switched BJ's = BJ then the player would have about 0.15% edge in the UK.

I haven't fully looked at Snyder's WLPC system although I did try it on a few close 'switch' decisions and it came out quite well. I don't know what added edge it would give to the casino by using it.
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
#14
ahh again thanks for the info!

How well do you think the hi-lo indicies will work on bj switch?

Would there be any situations the indicies would be wrong? More towards one where you should only hit and not double?

And could you explain why you wouldd hit 14 v 2, if i remember correctly auto monkey said something like why hit it, if the dealer gets 22 it doesn't matter what you hand is!

Thanks again!
Ming
 

Geoff Hall

Well-Known Member
#15
ycming said:
ahh again thanks for the info!

How well do you think the hi-lo indicies will work on bj switch?

Would there be any situations the indicies would be wrong? More towards one where you should only hit and not double?

And could you explain why you wouldd hit 14 v 2, if i remember correctly auto monkey said something like why hit it, if the dealer gets 22 it doesn't matter what you hand is!

Thanks again!
Ming
I ran the simulation, a few years back, using several different count systems. I think that Zen came out best in the ones I tested although hi-lo was adequate.

There are close decisions which I'm sure would change with slight shifts to +'ve or -'ve counts. 14 vs 2 is a close 'Hit' decision (would probably be stand at +1) and the reason that the 'push 22' affects the reason to 'hit' is that you don't gain as much by standing i.e. you don't get paid with a dealer 'bust' of 22. Therefore, it changes the decision to a hit as the stand is weakened slightly.

Other close decisions I can think of is 12 vs 4 (possibly stand at +1), 11 vs 9 (possibly double at +1) and 9 vs 5 (possibly double at +1). I'm sure there are quite a few changes to the game that would be adapted on counts up to +3, including some of the splitting that occurs in regular Blackjack but not in 'Blackjack Switch' i.e. 2,2 vs 3 for example.
 

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#16
ycming said:
Hey peeps,

Can't seem to find the answer i need, does anyone the house edge for ENHC blackjack switch ?(6 decks, DAS, DOA,No insurance but even money)

The casino do advertise the HE as 2.XX%, but i think that is way too high.

I also know that the HE differs depending on the switching i use the arnold snyder switch system, think he called it the WPCL system.

Thanks
Ming
Something is not right there. If they are offering even money that would make a BJ a guaranteed winner before the dealer checks for BJ. So the strategy would be to always take even money as BJ's pay 1:1. I am not overly confident in Snyder's strategy producing near optimal results, study the tables for exceptions.
BW
 

Geoff Hall

Well-Known Member
#17
Blackjacks

Brock Windsor said:
Something is not right there. If they are offering even money that would make a BJ a guaranteed winner before the dealer checks for BJ. So the strategy would be to always take even money as BJ's pay 1:1. I am not overly confident in Snyder's strategy producing near optimal results, study the tables for exceptions.
BW
If 'Blackjack' is an automatic winner there is never a case where you should 'switch' away from it against a 10 or Ace.
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
#18
ah, now do you have a list of casino in the UK that offer Bj switch ? My home town casino seesm to taken it off! am pure gutted!

Obviously with a shoe not CSM:D

Thanks
Ming
 

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#19
Geoff Hall said:
If 'Blackjack' is an automatic winner there is never a case where you should 'switch' away from it against a 10 or Ace.
Surely that depends on the odds of the dealer busting out? Playing BS I'm sure you're right, but if you're counting the cards, and the count is high with a dealer showing a 6, it may be advantageous to do so, especially if the switch allows a double down on one of the revised hands? Kicking a snapper into touch will also be less costly than normal BJ as they are only paid out at even money?
 

Geoff Hall

Well-Known Member
#20
Switch away from a Blackjack

It's possible that in high counts you would 'switch' against a 6. I think there would be times in neutral counts that you may also 'switch'.

I know that in neutral counts you do not 'switch' away against a 10 or Ace if the 'Blackjack' is a guaranteed winner.

I've dug out the 'switch' tables to see if guaranteeing a pay on 'Blackjack' will affect the 'switch'. Haven't looked yet but will post a short series of results from the simulated table in due course.
 
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