First-time BJI poster, with Advice

#1
I think that the title of the thread says it all: First-time BlackJackInfo.com poster, with advice. What could a first-time poster advise you on? Not sure...But read-on anyway if you have a few minutes.

I am not a new BlackJack player...hardly....I have been playing the game of black jack since a weekend in Vegas in 1991; when I won approximately $54,000.00 (Went with $6,000 exact). That was my first time ever in a casino, and I was only 20 years old.....the neat thing back then, was that if you didn't have an I.D. (I did...just couldnt show it)....you couldn't buy chips...but you could lay "cash" on the felt. So anyway....Between Bally's; the Flamingo; and the Mirage....I raked-in approx $54K....(I lived in the Bay-area at the time)....I immediately heard of an all-night "tent" car-sale going on...so I proceeded to go buy my first corvette...a 1986 model for about 16K (The guy was a little surprised I paid in cash). Anyway...I was obviously living high on the hog....I couldn't be beat.
So off I drove...back to Ballys this time, as they were shooting a movie-scene at that time (Leaving Las Vegas)...and the 'Vette looked really good under those lights as I handed the keys to the valet.
The first problem I had with the game of black-jack (in Vegas) was that none of the Casinos (that I knew of at the time) would allow me to bet more than $10,000 a hand...unless I bought my own table....for $1,000,000 minimum (no kidding).
So, I ended-up going back to the Mirage a few hours later (still day one....or, at least at least it was for me, since I hadn't slept yet), and still about 30K in my fanny-pack (remember...I just bought a 'Vette, and I spent other money on something as well....so I was in the low 30's), and as I walked into the doors, I told my friend Rich: "I'm not leaving until I have at least 40,000!".....................I ended-up winning about $22,000 in 3 hours. I was back in the 50K -range...and the Mirage had issued me a gold VIP card, and had offered me the nicest hotel-room I'd ever seen....it had it's own bar, and a kitchen, and a living room! This place was nicer than my apartment.
I Slept.

After I woke-up, had something to eat, and generously gave Rich a couple grand to "play" with, I went back to the tables. But I quickly got frustrated...because after a couple hours of play, I couldn't make any head-room. I wasn't losing; but I wasn't winning either....and obviously, I was "meant" to play this game....surely I'd have a million dollars within a couple days......

That is when I learned the most devestating thing in my life: Black Jack will catch-up to you if you aren't careful.

Someone told me of a place called "Binions"...where they allowed max-bets of $25,000. This was obviously the place for me...so I was off: Looking for some HUGE casino called "Binions". What I found was a 'small' place, called Jack Binions. They had a million dollars on the wall, as you walked in, and sold really nice, expensive....very expensive, gifts. I was home......for 15 minutes.

I promptly found an empty table...and proceeded to play all 3 places, at 10K a hand. I lost all 3. I played three hands again, undeterred, at 5k a hand...winning 2 and losing one. Within 15 minutes, I had lost every single hand....and every dollar I had! If not for Rich...who had 120.00 left, I would never have got my corvette home.....which,BTW...I sold for 5K to Mr.Corvette in Pleasant Hill,CA...and went back to Vegas...and lost that too.

There was a four-year stretch where I didn't play anything....until I went up to Canada one weekend, and won 15K there, after starting with $600....I was hooked again.

Now I stay away from the larger casinos, and stick to the smaller ones....super-stition? I dunno...probably/maybe. Here's the thing..... I learned how to count cards in 1998...although I wasn't aware that I was doing it...lemme explain: I read a book that told me how to keep track of the cards by assigning values to them.... This is called the simple-count today....Jim Thorn wrote it I believe. It is relatively simple to remember, but as hard as anything "new" you are trying to teach yourself. Anyway...at the time, I wasn't aware that what I was doing was counting cards....so...basically, I was counting w/o knowing it...see, I haven't lied to you.

I tried this system in the casinos, and like most of you who have "jumped" into things too quick...I found it hard to keep track....eventually ignoring the count altogether, and just playing...I ended-up winning.

Now here's the thing..... I still goto casinos (a LOT) I play mostly BJ, and to take a break will waste a few bucks at 3-card or possibly Carribean-stud, if the JP is rich....but 99% of my time is at the BJ tables...the other stuff is just a distraction. I don't do the count...ANY count...yet I win...very regularly. So I wondered to myself: am I counting subconsiously.....I mean... I do look at the way the cards are going, and when I'm hot...I press...(Up to 20X my starting bet...sometimes even more); when the dealer is hot..or a lot of high cards have been played, I drop to the minimum...or at-least to my minimum. So maybe I count without knowing it.

Last year I bought a new Explorer with my winnings (part of them).....and took a long trip......even won 5K in Northern Calif. (I dont live in Cali anymore...but I have family there).

Anyway...you have read ALL of this, to hear one thing..maybe two ;)

When I am looking for a table, I am looking for VERY specific things: #1 (this is a must) - Make sure the people at the table are having a good time, laughing, talking....not down-in-the-dumps. In my experience...you do better at good tables, and if people are happy, having a good time, then chances are they are winning, or at least not losing too much. The next thing I look for is a 2-deck shoe. I do my best when playing a 2-deck shoe, but I have won a ton of money playing the 6-8 decks shoes also..... but 2 deck is best. I don't play single deck, because you can never get the table by yourself, and with others sitting there, you can get no rythm. Finally, one last piece of advice: IF you are going to learn to count....or try ANY system...then make sure you know it PERFECT!!!! Otherwise, you are not only cheating yourself, but you are fooling yourself too. It may take you six months, but the nice thing....the money will wait for you! ;)

Good-luck, and hopefully you will win the next time you play! BTW, nice site.
 
#2
You left out some interesting items.

captheathmalc said:
I think that the title of the thread says it all: First-time BlackJackInfo.com poster, with advice. What could a first-time poster advise you on? Not sure...But read-on anyway if you have a few minutes.

I am not a new BlackJack player...hardly....I have been playing the game of black jack since a weekend in Vegas in 1991; when I won approximately $54,000.00 (Went with $6,000 exact). That was my first time ever in a casino, and I was only 20 years old.....the neat thing back then, was that if you didn't have an I.D. (I did...just couldnt show it)....you couldn't buy chips...but you could lay "cash" on the felt. So anyway....Between Bally's; the Flamingo; and the Mirage....I raked-in approx $54K....(I lived in the Bay-area at the time)....I immediately heard of an all-night "tent" car-sale going on...so I proceeded to go buy my first corvette...a 1986 model for about 16K (The guy was a little surprised I paid in cash). Anyway...I was obviously living high on the hog....I couldn't be beat.
So off I drove...back to Ballys this time, as they were shooting a movie-scene at that time (Leaving Las Vegas)...and the 'Vette looked really good under those lights as I handed the keys to the valet.
The first problem I had with the game of black-jack (in Vegas) was that none of the Casinos (that I knew of at the time) would allow me to bet more than $10,000 a hand...unless I bought my own table....for $1,000,000 minimum (no kidding).
So, I ended-up going back to the Mirage a few hours later (still day one....or, at least at least it was for me, since I hadn't slept yet), and still about 30K in my fanny-pack (remember...I just bought a 'Vette, and I spent other money on something as well....so I was in the low 30's), and as I walked into the doors, I told my friend Rich: "I'm not leaving until I have at least 40,000!".....................I ended-up winning about $22,000 in 3 hours. I was back in the 50K -range...and the Mirage had issued me a gold VIP card, and had offered me the nicest hotel-room I'd ever seen....it had it's own bar, and a kitchen, and a living room! This place was nicer than my apartment.
I Slept.

After I woke-up, had something to eat, and generously gave Rich a couple grand to "play" with, I went back to the tables. But I quickly got frustrated...because after a couple hours of play, I couldn't make any head-room. I wasn't losing; but I wasn't winning either....and obviously, I was "meant" to play this game....surely I'd have a million dollars within a couple days......

That is when I learned the most devestating thing in my life: Black Jack will catch-up to you if you aren't careful.

Someone told me of a place called "Binions"...where they allowed max-bets of $25,000. This was obviously the place for me...so I was off: Looking for some HUGE casino called "Binions". What I found was a 'small' place, called Jack Binions. They had a million dollars on the wall, as you walked in, and sold really nice, expensive....very expensive, gifts. I was home......for 15 minutes.

I promptly found an empty table...and proceeded to play all 3 places, at 10K a hand. I lost all 3. I played three hands again, undeterred, at 5k a hand...winning 2 and losing one. Within 15 minutes, I had lost every single hand....and every dollar I had! If not for Rich...who had 120.00 left, I would never have got my corvette home.....which,BTW...I sold for 5K to Mr.Corvette in Pleasant Hill,CA...and went back to Vegas...and lost that too.

There was a four-year stretch where I didn't play anything....until I went up to Canada one weekend, and won 15K there, after starting with $600....I was hooked again.

Now I stay away from the larger casinos, and stick to the smaller ones....super-stition? I dunno...probably/maybe. Here's the thing..... I learned how to count cards in 1998...although I wasn't aware that I was doing it...lemme explain: I read a book that told me how to keep track of the cards by assigning values to them.... This is called the simple-count today....Jim Thorn wrote it I believe. It is relatively simple to remember, but as hard as anything "new" you are trying to teach yourself. Anyway...at the time, I wasn't aware that what I was doing was counting cards....so...basically, I was counting w/o knowing it...see, I haven't lied to you.

I tried this system in the casinos, and like most of you who have "jumped" into things too quick...I found it hard to keep track....eventually ignoring the count altogether, and just playing...I ended-up winning.

Now here's the thing..... I still goto casinos (a LOT) I play mostly BJ, and to take a break will waste a few bucks at 3-card or possibly Carribean-stud, if the JP is rich....but 99% of my time is at the BJ tables...the other stuff is just a distraction. I don't do the count...ANY count...yet I win...very regularly. So I wondered to myself: am I counting subconsiously.....I mean... I do look at the way the cards are going, and when I'm hot...I press...(Up to 20X my starting bet...sometimes even more); when the dealer is hot..or a lot of high cards have been played, I drop to the minimum...or at-least to my minimum. So maybe I count without knowing it.

Last year I bought a new Explorer with my winnings (part of them).....and took a long trip......even won 5K in Northern Calif. (I dont live in Cali anymore...but I have family there).

Anyway...you have read ALL of this, to hear one thing..maybe two ;)

When I am looking for a table, I am looking for VERY specific things: #1 (this is a must) - Make sure the people at the table are having a good time, laughing, talking....not down-in-the-dumps. In my experience...you do better at good tables, and if people are happy, having a good time, then chances are they are winning, or at least not losing too much. The next thing I look for is a 2-deck shoe. I do my best when playing a 2-deck shoe, but I have won a ton of money playing the 6-8 decks shoes also..... but 2 deck is best. I don't play single deck, because you can never get the table by yourself, and with others sitting there, you can get no rythm. Finally, one last piece of advice: IF you are going to learn to count....or try ANY system...then make sure you know it PERFECT!!!! Otherwise, you are not only cheating yourself, but you are fooling yourself too. It may take you six months, but the nice thing....the money will wait for you! ;)

Good-luck, and hopefully you will win the next time you play! BTW, nice site.
Overall, are you behind or ahead in winnings?
You must be fearless in putting out the big bets judging by your post.
The good mood at a table is usually the result of everyone probably winning but can change quickly when they start to lose. I don't think the mood affects the cards although some players play differently when they start to lose. It is more enjoyable to play at an up-beat table. I've played with players who are miserable even when they are winning and it does affect everyone elses mood. :(
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#4
Zen, it does have vague relevance to counting as he is suggesting intuitive counting. I doubt it personally, but you have suggested similar concepts yourself, such as tapping into your subconscience for borderline decisions.
As to it, i wouldn't advise any player to follow Cap's example, but i do think that the piece of advice he gives is excellent.

RJT.
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#6
I'd agree with that but it is sort of in between here and voodoo, and on the re-read of my post i didn't mean to question using your subconscience to make borderline decision. I use CV at near the top speed and find that even though i often feel that i've missed cards because they've been taken too quickly - i certainly couldn't tell you what they were - when i check i seem to always be spot on.

RJT.
 
#7
jomoats said:
Overall, are you behind or ahead in winnings?
You must be fearless in putting out the big bets judging by your post.
The good mood at a table is usually the result of everyone probably winning but can change quickly when they start to lose. I don't think the mood affects the cards although some players play differently when they start to lose. It is more enjoyable to play at an up-beat table. I've played with players who are miserable even when they are winning and it does affect everyone elses mood. :(

Fearless? I don't goto the casino with money I can't afford to lose. So, yes...I guess I am fearless.

You are right...things can change quickly...and people can start losing VERY quickly....yet, in my experiences...and I have a tad bit....I do my best at those type tables.

Overall...I am well ahead. I am not what you would consider an "expert" BJ-player....but, since it is my sole source of income, I guess I would be considered professional.
 
#8
zengrifter said:
You posted in the card-counting forum. Do you even know correct basic strategy? zg
:::Chuckles::: Yes, Zen.... thank you.


I apologize for posting in the wrong forum...I meant for this to be in the "general" area.
 
#9
zengrifter said:
Actually, his post is borderline Voodoo Forum, but I just want to know whether he even knows basic strategy. zg

Actually.... I would never have even considered the "voodoo" catagory, as the name refers to religious beliefs :

Voodoo (Vodou, Vodoun, Vodun, Vudu, or Vudun in Benin;Togo; southeastern Ghana, Burkina Faso, and Senegal;also Vodou in Haiti) is a name attributed to a West African ancestral religious system of worship and ritual practices, where deities are born and honored, along with the veneration of ancient and recent ancestors who earlier served the same tutelary deities. This system of worship is widespread in a multitude of African groups in West Africa.


And using that thread-of-thinking, I would think of that catagory to do more with someone who has a "system" based on some archaic belief. I never offered that. I simply said : "In my experience"...in reference to the type of table I liked to goto.

As for my advice, It was for someone to 'perfect' whatever system or method they applied as their strategy.

However Zen, since you have twice mentioned BS to me, I'd be more than willing to have you test me on it....provided that you allow me the same curteousy...to test you on one of your claims. We can do it in IM (recordable), or if you wish...I'll be at the Argosy Casino Wednesday,Saturday and Sunday. I will be the one with the Ohio-State hat, and the blue sweatshirt. Captain is my nickname, so you'll get my attention by that.

E-mail: [email protected]

Lemme know

Heath
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#10
Cap,
I don't think - although i'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong - that Zen meant any offence. He was simply pointing out that while your system may have made money for you, technically it is not what would be considered a winning system.
There is no mathematical advantage from what you describe and if a lot of people were to start playing in a similar fashion far more would lose playing this way than would win.
While your technical definition of Voodoo is correct, in that that is what Voodoo originally was. However culturally in the english language it has also taken on the meaning of "Deceptive or delusive nonsense" (taken from dictionary.com) and while you i'm sure have no intent to decieve or delude people, compared to a system that can be mathematically proven to produce a player advantage, it would be considered nonsense.
That is not to say however that your experience or contribution would not be valued here.

RJT.
 
#11
RJT said:
Cap,

That is not to say however that your experience or contribution would not be valued here.

RJT.
It is totally valued here. You are the second professional ploppy we've encounterd on this site. Your kind facinate me. I can't absorb enough of the information you guys provide. Tell us more.
 
#12
RJT said:
Cap,
I don't think - although i'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong - that Zen meant any offence. He was simply pointing out that while your system may have made money for you, technically it is not what would be considered a winning system.
There is no mathematical advantage from what you describe and if a lot of people were to start playing in a similar fashion far more would lose playing this way than would win.
While your technical definition of Voodoo is correct, in that that is what Voodoo originally was. However culturally in the english language it has also taken on the meaning of "Deceptive or delusive nonsense" (taken from dictionary.com) and while you i'm sure have no intent to decieve or delude people, compared to a system that can be mathematically proven to produce a player advantage, it would be considered nonsense.
That is not to say however that your experience or contribution would not be valued here.

RJT.


Perhaps due to my overall newness to this board, I am not as familiar with ZenGrifter as you, or others...and, yes...I guess I did take offense to it...sort of. However, you bring-up a good point when discussing what I have done as opposed to a mathematically precise count-system, that gives you...say a 4.5% (or higher, depending on your level of expertise) advantage over the house. I would never tell someone to go the route I have went...because, in the beginning, I lost a lot more than I won. It was through this experience that I learned certain nuinces, and bet accordingly. One of the things I didn't mention in my original post (and, perhaps should have), was that I learned "tells" the hard way...before most people had a definitive term for them.

Also, since I have already started this thread here, I will clear-up my entire "play-strategy" that I use. I am doing this because apparently my earlier post was too vague, or ZG would never have questioned me about BS (or, I assume not).

My Strategy: I mostly play at tables set at 25/2000. This varies a little, depending on where I am, but for this post, it will suffice. I never sit at third base (anchor), and try to sit in the 3-4 position, as I have the best view of the dealer and the pit. As stated earlier, I try to make sure the table is not drunk, or depressed. I watch the 3rd-base guy for a few hands, to ensure he has a basic knowledge of the game, and won't do too many stupid plays (Splitting T's,etc.). Once all of this is done, I always do the same thing...always: The first hand is always a minimum bet. It doesn't matter if I'm up 110K or down 20K. Once I find the dealer's tells (they all have them), I use the tells in conjunction with BS, and what "may" be a sub-consious card-count. I do watch patterns, and I adjust my bet accordingly.

My strategy is not flawless, however, it has made me a consistent winner. I win approximately 2 out of three times on average. Which doesn't always amount to a win. Because if the losing day was 30K and I had a winning day of 10K and a winning day of 15K....then I obviously lost 5K over that series. However, in general, my losing days are cut short, as I go with a set amount everytime...so my losses can never be more than that.

Okay, I'll stop writing now. If someone is interested in learning more about how "I" play, you can e-mail me, and I'll be happy to assist as much as I can. However, keep in mind the above post, and what I stated in both this post and my first one: "perfect" what you are doing, the money will wait for you.

Heath
 
#13
supercoolmancool said:
It is totally valued here. You are the second professional ploppy we've encounterd on this site. Your kind facinate me. I can't absorb enough of the information you guys provide. Tell us more.

"Ploppy," Now that facinates me.
 
#14
What do you mean you look for dealer tells? What does the dealer know that you want them to tell you? Did you find a game where the dealer peaks to check for blackjack?
 
#15
captheathmalc said:
I watch the 3rd-base guy for a few hands, to ensure he has a basic knowledge of the game, and won't do too many stupid plays (Splitting T's,etc.).
How does the 3rd base play affect your likely session outcome? zg
 
#16
supercoolmancool said:
What do you mean you look for dealer tells? What does the dealer know that you want them to tell you? Did you find a game where the dealer peaks to check for blackjack?
No, I didn't.

However... a "tell" is not only shown by how a card is moved.
 
#18
zengrifter said:
How does the 3rd base play affect your likely session outcome? zg
Are you referring to me not sitting their, or referring to me watching the person sitting there? I'll answer both...just in case. ;)

I don't sit at 3rd base because it is harder for me to pick-up "tells". Perhaps you are better at it than me, and can do it from 3rd. However, to someone just learning about "tells", I'd suggest they sit @ #3 or #4.


As for the person sitting at 3rd-base. Their play "doesn't" affect my overall session outcome. What it does affect are the attitudes of the other people that are sitting at the table. And since I have already mentioned the type of table I prefer to play at, you'll understand why I want 3rd base to not make stupid decisions. For instance: About a month ago, I was playing BJ in the HS-room. The table was full, we were all having a good time. Well, the lady next to me had a pair of 6's and the dealer had a six showing. The lady split the sixes, and got another six, then another...altogether 4 6's, which she had 5k on, plus doubled on one of them. IE: $25K The 3rd base guy had 2 kings. He split them. He recieved a T on one and something else on the other. The dealer had a T in the hole, and ended-up getting a 5....21. That lady, and everyone at the table was upset. A player at 3rd-base can change the complexity of the table for me....and when the table mood changes, I have found that the dealer's tells fade, or disappear for awhile. So although his "split" didn't (in all liklihood) affect my overall session, it did require me to leave the table, which meant I had to start over. So...before I sit down, I make sure the 3rd-base person isn't going to go erratic on me.
 
#19
supercoolmancool said:
Right but if you are looking for dealer tells then the dealer must know something in order to tell you right?

The dealer looks in his little table-mirror. You watch his eyes/mouth/shoulders/hands and the way he moves to the shoe. You will find that they are very consistent.

Obviously, these "tells" only matter when a T or A is up, but since that will happen on average once every third hand......
 
#20
captheathmalc said:
A player at 3rd-base can change the complexity of the table for me....and when the table mood changes, I have found that the dealer's tells fade, or disappear for awhile. So although his "split" didn't (in all liklihood) affect my overall session, it did require me to leave the table, which meant I had to start over.
Hmmm, verrrrry innnnteresttttting! zg

 
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