One2Six CSM shuffling machine
- Thread starter beyondbj
- Start date
are they beatable?
http://tamburin.casinocitytimes.com/article/continuous-shufflers-revisited-1326
1. The average number of 10s per hand is slightly higher with a CMS game than with a game that uses a cut card.
2. The probability of getting a blackjack is slightly higher with a CSM game than it is with a game using a cut card.
3. The casino's edge over a basic strategy player is actually slightly less in a CSM game vs. a game using a cut card.
4. Overall the player in a CSM game will stand to lose about 20% more money because they will be dealt 20% more hands per hour in a CSM game.
...
we all know that CSM's will never work for counters. and we know a BS player, on average, will lose more money playing CSM's
but that's because BS was created for cutcard tables where there are certain amounts of high value and low value cards. I mean, how was BS created? on top of common sense hit/stay moves, was any of it created based on %age of won/lost hands in certain situations???
has anyone tried to ever create their own basic strategy chart for a CSM from a simulator ? i know it sounds stupid, but CSM's are everywhere, and my friend is buggin' me to ask if anyone else think's its possible to play and beat these
http://tamburin.casinocitytimes.com/article/continuous-shufflers-revisited-1326
1. The average number of 10s per hand is slightly higher with a CMS game than with a game that uses a cut card.
2. The probability of getting a blackjack is slightly higher with a CSM game than it is with a game using a cut card.
3. The casino's edge over a basic strategy player is actually slightly less in a CSM game vs. a game using a cut card.
4. Overall the player in a CSM game will stand to lose about 20% more money because they will be dealt 20% more hands per hour in a CSM game.
...
we all know that CSM's will never work for counters. and we know a BS player, on average, will lose more money playing CSM's
but that's because BS was created for cutcard tables where there are certain amounts of high value and low value cards. I mean, how was BS created? on top of common sense hit/stay moves, was any of it created based on %age of won/lost hands in certain situations???
has anyone tried to ever create their own basic strategy chart for a CSM from a simulator ? i know it sounds stupid, but CSM's are everywhere, and my friend is buggin' me to ask if anyone else think's its possible to play and beat these
oic. thanks for the clarification
so if I were just a straight BS player, CSM is better than playing a cutcard game?
i gave up playing normal BS, and started trying to count. and looking at csm's now. i'm scared to even sit at one and try it out.
maybe next time i'll go, i'll find a very low limit CSM and play straight bs
so if I were just a straight BS player, CSM is better than playing a cutcard game?
i gave up playing normal BS, and started trying to count. and looking at csm's now. i'm scared to even sit at one and try it out.
maybe next time i'll go, i'll find a very low limit CSM and play straight bs
I did that two weekend ago with someone else who is just getting used to playing at tables. We were just flat betting, and the only red chip tables were CSM. We weren't playing with much money, and I was helping this person get comfortable at the table and helping them with BS. We both played for over an hour and I can say that I definitely saw the same couple runs of cards come through. Maybe it was coincidence, but I saw some runs of high cards come out more than once.
I left up 8 units, other player left up 24 units.
I left up 8 units, other player left up 24 units.
Again, it's all been discussed in the past if you search through the forum postings. I believe you can identify when you have a edge in the players' favour, but:
You need to play with a full table of seven players to get the maximum number of cards out onto the table each round.
You need to keep a seperate count for the last two rounds and net them off (ie +4 & -3 = RC+1).
If you identify when the edge has moved in favour of the table, it'll only be there for at most two rounds.
You'll need a HUGE spread and bankroll to turn this slim advantage profitable.
It ain't super-accurate, due to assuming the around 40 cards will be unlikely to come out in the next round. This assumption could be wrong, but unfortunately Shufflemaster Inc don't publish the details of how these things work.
I would humbly suggest that if the only games in town are CSM, learn to play something else or save your pennies for a trip where they have reasonable games.
Sorry that it isn't good news.
Newb99
You need to play with a full table of seven players to get the maximum number of cards out onto the table each round.
You need to keep a seperate count for the last two rounds and net them off (ie +4 & -3 = RC+1).
If you identify when the edge has moved in favour of the table, it'll only be there for at most two rounds.
You'll need a HUGE spread and bankroll to turn this slim advantage profitable.
It ain't super-accurate, due to assuming the around 40 cards will be unlikely to come out in the next round. This assumption could be wrong, but unfortunately Shufflemaster Inc don't publish the details of how these things work.
I would humbly suggest that if the only games in town are CSM, learn to play something else or save your pennies for a trip where they have reasonable games.
Sorry that it isn't good news.
Newb99
Hi again guys!
If you didn't see this video before, plz see it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL_0Zw07TCw
At 0:51, the girl is extracting the cards from the bottom of the one2six (and as the patent, the minimun cards here is 3)
So as you say rarensu39, maybe the solution is to make a probabilistic chart in a simulation software. As you could imagine, guys, we need to try with different random numbers (I mean, with different random numbers generator for make different probabilistic charts)
I'm hoping your responses because I have done a few things in java.
If you didn't see this video before, plz see it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL_0Zw07TCw
At 0:51, the girl is extracting the cards from the bottom of the one2six (and as the patent, the minimun cards here is 3)
So as you say rarensu39, maybe the solution is to make a probabilistic chart in a simulation software. As you could imagine, guys, we need to try with different random numbers (I mean, with different random numbers generator for make different probabilistic charts)
I'm hoping your responses because I have done a few things in java.