"No Mid-Shoe Entry" rule REVOKED at Rivers Casino

Mewtwo

Well-Known Member
#1
I noticed that the NMS signs had vanished from high-limit. I mentioned that I liked this as finding a table out in the lower limit area on a weekend was nearly impossible and it would be nice to come in without having to wait for half a shoe to finish. PC said that unless people on a table specifcially requested NMS, or the table was reserved, no tables would bar mid-shoe entry.

Maybe they realized that they were just pissing off their regular players more than they were deterring counters?

...Gentlemen, start your Wonging.
 

Mewtwo

Well-Known Member
#4
prankster said:
All tables or high limit only?:joker:
ALL tables from my understanding. I asked this in HL but can only assume this applies to the higher-end tables out in low limit.

(But the higher-end tables out in the low limit section are :mad: CSM! Seriously, they had two $50 and two $100 tables with CSMs and like sheep to the slaughter there were idiots playing at every single one of them. The lower-limit tables always allowed mid-shoe as it is but good luck getting a spot at a $10 table anyway.)
 
#5
Wise Casino Management

Casinos lose money with NMSE
because:
People only have a limited time to gamble; not only per trip, but before dinner, show, bedtime etc. Whenever people can't play the casino loses money. As was mentioned players may get tired of waiting and decide to leave and not return!

:joker::whip:
 

sabre

Well-Known Member
#6
I'm quite sure casinos don't lose money on the NMSE rule when applied only to high limit tables under uncrowded conditions. Note that the rule usually doesn't exist to deter counters, but rather to satisfy the high limit ploppies who don't want people ruining their sacred flow. The end result of NMSE is more hands/hour to the people betting the most in your casino.
 
#7
Reality

sabre said:
The end result of NMSE is more hands/hour to the people betting the most in your casino.
If someone has to wait for a shuffle it's impossible to have more hands per hour, you can only have less hands per hour.

Honey, let me play a few hands before we go home. Oh crap, they have NMSE. Well; I guess we can't wait, let's go home.
The above is an actual overheard conversation.

The sacred flow of the cards hurts casinos also, it inhibits players from playing. If they have to wait due to rules or are inhibited to play till the end of shoe due to civilian culture, the casinos lose money.

Any moment cards are not being dealt in a casino due to:
complex shuffles
shallow penetrations
NMSE
crowded tables
The casino is losing money!

:joker::whip:
 

sabre

Well-Known Member
#8
blackjack avenger said:
If someone has to wait for a shuffle it's impossible to have more hands per hour, you can only have less hands per hour.
Again uncrowded being a key point here. Yes, you lose hands if someone can't play. But if there's an open table nearby, you now have two people playing heads up due to NMSE, rather than one table with two players. More total hands will be dealt. You also eliminate people jumping in and buying chips at random intervals during the shoe.

Not to mention you no longer have your rich ploppy getting disgusted by the yahoo who jumped in for one hand and stole his BJ.

I strongly suspect that NMSE in the high limit rooms is a very +EV decision for casinos.
 

Mewtwo

Well-Known Member
#9
sabre said:
Again uncrowded being a key point here. Yes, you lose hands if someone can't play. But if there's an open table nearby, you now have two people playing heads up due to NMSE, rather than one table with two players. More total hands will be dealt. You also eliminate people jumping in and buying chips at random intervals during the shoe.

Not to mention you no longer have your rich ploppy getting disgusted by the yahoo who jumped in for one hand and stole his BJ.

I strongly suspect that NMSE in the high limit rooms is a very +EV decision for casinos.
Well if the rich ploppy truly is a ploppy, then he very well should have his BJ stolen by the person backcounting his table and jumping in with a large bet right when those aces and faces are ready to come out.
 
#10
Exception?

sabre said:
Again uncrowded being a key point here. Yes, you lose hands if someone can't play. But if there's an open table nearby, you now have two people playing heads up due to NMSE, rather than one table with two players. More total hands will be dealt. You also eliminate people jumping in and buying chips at random intervals during the shoe.

Not to mention you no longer have your rich ploppy getting disgusted by the yahoo who jumped in for one hand and stole his BJ.

I strongly suspect that NMSE in the high limit rooms is a very +EV decision for casinos.
Dealing the cards is the +EV decision.

Ummmm, all the players buy chips in order to lose their money. So it's tough to say this slows the game down.

Most players do not like playing alone, many times you will see full or near full tables next to a lonely dealer. Take a friendly survey of the civilians next time you play. They don't like to play alone because they lose faster.

Walk up and play an empty table that allows mid shoe entry, see how fast you get company.

The scenario you present is rare. OK 1 table is in play, the new player walks up and plays the other empty table. Now there are 2 tables in play, if a another player walks up he has to wait.

If you play in casinos that offer no mid entry you will constantly see people waiting to play. The casinos have civilians wait to play because of their fear of counters. This is a mistake for casino management.

When do many people play? Lunch breaks, before dinner, before the show, until the wife returns, until tired when they wait the casino loses money.

:joker::whip:
 

sabre

Well-Known Member
#11
blackjack avenger said:
If you play in casinos that offer no mid entry you will constantly see people waiting to play. The casinos have civilians wait to play because of their fear of counters. This is a mistake for casino management.
I've frequently seen casinos with $10-$3000 tables with MSE and $100-$3000 tables with NMSE. Same rules. In this situation, I fail to see how the NMSE rule is a result of fear of counters.

Green chippers don't like playing alone. Black chippers, I think a lot more are comfortable with/prefer solo play than you think.
 
#14
One Hand Lost Forever

sabre said:
I've frequently seen casinos with $10-$3000 tables with MSE and $100-$3000 tables with NMSE. Same rules. In this situation, I fail to see how the NMSE rule is a result of fear of counters.

Green chippers don't like playing alone. Black chippers, I think are more comfortable with/prefer solo play than you think.
I will give you that in general black chippers may be more comfortable alone,
but don't confuse them asking you to wait with wanting to be alone from the top of the shoe.

Take a casual survey of players, even blackchip. I am confident that most do not want to play alone.

Players will often act friendly and welcome you and this is more then the ones that ask you to wait.

NMSE is a counter to wonging, just like limited mid shoe bets. A big enough player can often request a reserved table to themselves. Sure it can have a duel purpose of making big players happy, or that is what the casinos say.

As soon as you see one person have to wait one hand and not be able to play that is money lost to the casino. There is no guarantee that the player will bet that money again at any other time.

Of course depending on where you play your observations could be perfectly accurate as mine could be.

:joker::whip:
 

Mewtwo

Well-Known Member
#15
...that didn't last long.

The dreaded NMSE signs returned at the Rivers today. Guess the black-chip ploppies were bitching it up already.
 
Top