What is the edge with this style of play?

#1
always insure a 5/5 or 5/6 against an ace, otherwise insure on +1 and above

betting spread $10 -1 or less, $20 neutral, $30-40 +1 (depends on Aces), $40-60 +2. $60 on +3, 20x the count above that (i.e. +10 is $200).

In -4 count split 5's against 6 if DAS is allowed (only if playing 6:5)

Always split 10's against 6 (unless playing 6:5, then only on + counts)

DD on blackjack vs. 6 in +4 count (only if playing 6:5)

DD on 12 if most of the cards unplayed are 7-9

DD any soft hand against a 6, in + counts against a 4 or 5 as well.

What is the edge in a heads up single deck game paying 3:2?

What is the edge in if its 6:5?

When I play at home, blackjack is even money and 2/3rds of the time I turn $300 in play money into $1000, then trade it in for quarters, then 50s then hundreds until I win a total of $10000 in practice then consider it won (or I lose $300 in play money and consider it lost). All of these examples are ro6.:flame:
 

snorky

Well-Known Member
#2
Assuming hi-lo...

billionaireben said:
always insure a 5/5 or 5/6 against an ace, otherwise insure on +1 and above
In single decks, this would be correct (for ease) since the break even index for insurance is TC > 1.4. In a 6 deck game, the break even index for insurance is TC > 3, which means you are losing some value at a low positive count. There can be arguments made for risk-averse plays such as taking even money and insuring 20 and 19 on positive counts. However I believe your intention is to double down on those two hands, which makes the play no longer risk-averse (Not to mention it is also incorrect to double down 10 vs. A on a low positive count). I am against insuring those hands as doubling down defeats the purpose of a risk-averse play.

billionaireben said:
betting spread $10 -1 or less, $20 neutral, $30-40 +1 (depends on Aces), $40-60 +2. $60 on +3, 20x the count above that (i.e. +10 is $200).
I would just cap my max bet at a TC of ~5, since the frequency of anything above that is low (my guess is ~2%). Your bet sizing depends on your overall bankroll. I keep my max bet at 1/100th of my initial bankroll, which produces a risk of ruin of about a low single digit percentage depending on the softness of the game.

billionaireben said:
In -4 count split 5's against 6 if DAS is allowed (only if playing 6:5)
You should never play 6:5 blackjack and highly protest it. Having more players play 6:5 means more 6:5 games in the future. On the other hand, splitting 5s is NEVER a good idea. It is better to start with a 10, than to be stuck with two 5's. An upcard of 6 busts less than half the time (H17: 44%, S17: 42%).

billionaireben said:
Always split 10's against 6 (unless playing 6:5, then only on + counts)
Again, never play 6:5 games. You should only split 10s against 6s on all counts if you were using cover play. I do not believe you are using cover play, so technically speaking, it is not ok to split 10's against 6's until TC > 4.

billionaireben said:
DD on blackjack vs. 6 in +4 count (only if playing 6:5)
BJ is a guaranteed 1.2 unit. Doubling down on a natural is like doubling down on 11. The amount you win and amount you lose (according to my intuition) does not equate to a 120% expectation. I could be wrong on this one...

billionaireben said:
DD on 12 if most of the cards unplayed are 7-9
I don't think it is ever correct to DD on 12. I don't know of any counts that has much playing correlation to 7-9, as most are based on the importance of aces and face cards. However even if there were some sort of correlation, using your logic, the dealer may easily obtain the unplayed 7-9 cards, not bust, and hit those good hands...

billionaireben said:
DD any soft hand against a 6, in + counts against a 4 or 5 as well.
Doubling all A2-A7 against 5-6 is basic strategy, even in negative counts. Double all A4-A7 against 4. Check out http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/strategy/calculator.html

billionaireben said:
What is the edge in a heads up single deck game paying 3:2?
That depends on the rule, spread, and penetration. Normally a single deck with 3:2 pay is a great game and should be preferred on top of any other game in the casino if you are a basic strategist or a card counter. You can obtain a very high edge in a 3:2 game. I get a 2-3% edge in my simulations using my <intolerable> spread. Heat however becomes a big issue as a large spread is intolerable, and I am working on that...

billionaireben said:
What is the edge in if its 6:5?
There is no edge... Well, the house has probably close to a 2% edge there rather than the standard < 0.5%. You would need a very large and aggressive spread to overcome that edge... Part of our edge comes from receiving naturals, b/c of the 1.5 unit payout (while we only lose 1 unit if the dealer has a natural). a 6:5 pay reduces that edge, even on high counts.

billionaireben said:
When I play at home, blackjack is even money and 2/3rds of the time I turn $300 in play money into $1000, then trade it in for quarters, then 50s then hundreds until I win a total of $10000 in practice then consider it won (or I lose $300 in play money and consider it lost). All of these examples are ro6.:flame:
Live and learn. Experience will have you chuckle at this last paragraph. :)
 

Southpaw

Well-Known Member
#3
Ruling out a game simply because of "X" (in this case 6:5) will make you a lot less profitable in the long-run. Yes, 6:5 is not as good as 3:2, but that does not mean that this cannot be overcome. For instance, I know of a 6:5 SD game that offers LS, RSA and can sometimes be found to be consistently dealt to the 4-5 cards, if they don't run out of cards altogether.

Also, those carnival games that many would never even consider playing can yield SCORE's that are orders of magnitude better than the best counting-games.

Most of the time, the HE (assuming BS and off the top) on 6:5 games will not be as large as 2%.

Your insuring 5,5 and 5,6, doubling 12, splitting X,X v. 6, and splitting 5's will be costly. However, although I don't play SD 3:2, I have heard that they are notoriously hounded, and it will take a lot of crazy cover and a good act to be able to play with the spread you mentioned without being shown the door.

One thing, though. I think that always splitting X,X v. 6 may do you more harm than good, even with the loss of EV aside.

Spaw
 
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