AC casinos fined for missing cards

Mr. T

Well-Known Member
#2
Why the fine. It is not a cheating case and the missing 7 in BJ actually reduce the HE. It is only an inadverturn oversight.
It is the short deck for BJ in the casino ships and unlicensed Indian casinos that are of real concern.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#3
The fines were justified, and, if anything, they were too small.

Both casinos are Harrahs stores and the staff need to be vigilant and careful that all A S M's are operating correctly.

I have witnessed dozens of A S M malfunctions [this year] at Harrahs stores where one of the cards winds up vertical - alongside the shuffled shoe.

The official procedure is that the cards must then be hand-shuffled — but some pit critters ignore this and simply place the errant card, viewed or not, randomly toward the center of the shoe.
 
#4
It may have been a case of cheating, but not by the casino. They said it was missing from a 52-card deck which means it had to be the 6:5 SD game, which is hand-held. A player might have taken it, mucked it and replaced it with an ace and didn't want to risk putting it back in the deck.
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#6
Actually, the shuffle machine WAS red-lighting for seven straight hours, with the machine reporting one card missing. It was completely IGNORED.

The CCC of New Jersey is probably the strictest in the world. The casinos get huge fines for ANYTHING out of the ordinary. Which, IMHO; is exactly the way it SHOULD be.
 
#8
I was at showboat about 2 weeks ago and witnessed alot of problems with their auto shufflers. Almost every other shoe had a mis-shuffle in it. I saw alot of partially mangled cards getting retrieved from machine, flattened out on the table (face-up) and re-inserted into shuffled shoes (with visible creases). Also saw alot of pit crew counting through mis-shuffled decks to verify missing cards. It was a little chaotic and seemed strange to me but I mostly play at hand shuffled tables so I didn't know what the normal ASM malfunction procedures were and I was winning so I didn't have much reason to fuss at the time.
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#9
palroot said:
I was at showboat about 2 weeks ago and witnessed alot of problems with their auto shufflers. Almost every other shoe had a mis-shuffle in it. I saw alot of partially mangled cards getting retrieved from machine, flattened out on the table (face-up) and re-inserted into shuffled shoes (with visible creases). Also saw alot of pit crew counting through mis-shuffled decks to verify missing cards. It was a little chaotic and seemed strange to me but I mostly play at hand shuffled tables so I didn't know what the normal ASM malfunction procedures were and I was winning so I didn't have much reason to fuss at the time.
So, did you note the creased cards and play them? It's not cheating if the house bends the cards, you know.
 
#10
moo321 said:
So, did you note the creased cards and play them? It's not cheating if the house bends the cards, you know.
I was aware of the values on the mangled cards and was certainly looking out for them, but unfortunately never got one dealt in a way that could be exploited. I'm sure if I stayed longer I could have eventually caught something, but I play no more than 5 or 6 shoes at a single sitting so my opportunity was limited.
 

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#13
What are your rights as a player when you discover that a card has been missing for a long time? It's more of an issue in poker than bj imo.
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#14
Thunder said:
What are your rights as a player when you discover that a card has been missing for a long time? It's more of an issue in poker than bj imo.
You could probably call gaming and have the results nullified, especially if tens or aces were missing.
 

pit15

Well-Known Member
#15
I'm shocked they would use a deck pulled out from a machine that red lighted. Every place I been to puts it back in the shuffler if there's a red light. If they're ignoring the warning that says a card is missing it opens them up to cheating. Someone could muck all the 5s in the deck. It's not like any of the dealers are skilled enough to realize that the deck is light a few cards
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#16
Once I was playing Sp21 at Ballys AC at the red light came on. The machine red light came on and indicated +1 cards being shuffled. They went thru the cards manually and found a 10 that had not been removed.
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#17
pit15 said:
I'm shocked they would use a deck pulled out from a machine that red lighted. Every place I been to puts it back in the shuffler if there's a red light. If they're ignoring the warning that says a card is missing it opens them up to cheating. Someone could muck all the 5s in the deck. It's not like any of the dealers are skilled enough to realize that the deck is light a few cards
If I recall correctly from reading about this when it happened, that's exactly what DID happen. The dealer told the floor person about the red light several times, and was instructed to ignore it. I believe that this went on for several hours before something was finally done. The fine was definitely justified. Don't know if that floor person was fired, or even disciplined, but he sure SHOULD have been!
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#18
21forme said:
Once I was playing Sp21 at Ballys AC at the red light came on. The machine red light came on and indicated +1 cards being shuffled. They went thru the cards manually and found a 10 that had not been removed.
I had a place almost introduce a full deck at this game...
 
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