An example why all casinos should offer Surrender

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#3
21forme said:
Was playing the other day and player at the table Surrendered a 4,2 v 9 :laugh:
That was me. But I had a very good reason to do so. And it had nothing to do with winning THAT hand. ;)
 
#6
In PA where surrender is the law, people either surrender too much or never surrender. They should also offer "casino surrender" in which you have the option to win a guaranteed 50% of your bet if you have a twenty or a guaranteed 75% of your bet if you have a 21. People would take that like they always take even money on blackjack vs dealer ace.
 

21gunsalute

Well-Known Member
#7
21forme said:
Was playing the other day and player at the table Surrendered a 4,2 v 9 :laugh:
Got that beat. A woman was playing 2 hands. Dealer has an Ace showing. Her first hand totals 13 so she surrenders. Her second hand totals 16 and she stands! WTF?! Later on she surrenders a 12 against a 3. Those were the only hands I saw her surrender all night.
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#8
The white flag!

I have come to the same conclusion on surrender. I'm glad they have it but alot of people overuse the option. It helped me alot to make a profit in high counts last week. Some people refuse to use the option and since I usually don't have that option available I have to rewire my circuits to play with it. I love it and wish alot more gaming commisions would require it to be offered.
 

Mewtwo

Well-Known Member
#9
alwayssplitaces said:
In PA where surrender is the law, people either surrender too much or never surrender. They should also offer "casino surrender" in which you have the option to win a guaranteed 50% of your bet if you have a twenty or a guaranteed 75% of your bet if you have a 21. People would take that like they always take even money on blackjack vs dealer ace.
This would end up being used by, and singling out counters really quickly.
 

farmdoggy

Well-Known Member
#10
I love surrender

In Stanford Wong's book he mentions that to a counter LS is about as good as DAS... But when you consider them both on a SCORE basis, LS is much better, and I find it adds more to my cover than it attracts attention when proper indices are used... Especially if the count rockets... I think casinos love to see a huge bet only for the player to give up half of the bet on a 13 without a fight.
 
#12
Mewtwo said:
This would end up being used by, and singling out counters really quickly.
I would think counters would never use the option of casino surrender since the EV of a 20 is >50% for all upcards and the EV of a 21 is >75%. It would be used by ploppies who want a guaranteed win, since a lot of ploppies always take even money.
 

Mewtwo

Well-Known Member
#13
alwayssplitaces said:
I would think counters would never use the option of casino surrender since the EV of a 20 is >50% for all upcards and the EV of a 21 is >75%. It would be used by ploppies who want a guaranteed win, since a lot of ploppies always take even money.
The EV of a 20 is above 50%, yes. But what if the count's +10, and thus the dealer is more than 50% likely to have a 10 down under their 10 up?
 

1357111317

Well-Known Member
#14
Casinos should give players as many possible decisions as they can. The more decisions, the more they can make the wrong play. Surrender, doubling, insurance, casino surrender, everything.
 

MangoJ

Well-Known Member
#15
Mewtwo said:
The EV of a 20 is above 50%, yes. But what if the count's +10, and thus the dealer is more than 50% likely to have a 10 down under their 10 up?
Assumed she peeked before (late surrender). If she has the 10 under you push your bet. If she hasn't the 10 she must have a lower card, and you are likely to win your hand.

The only chance to lose your hand is a multicard 21, which is much more unlikely in a strong positive count.
 

SecurityRisk

Well-Known Member
#16
alwayssplitaces said:
In PA where surrender is the law, people either surrender too much or never surrender. They should also offer "casino surrender" in which you have the option to win a guaranteed 50% of your bet if you have a twenty or a guaranteed 75% of your bet if you have a 21. People would take that like they always take even money on blackjack vs dealer ace.
I play at a casino that has Casino Surrender. They call it "Automatic win," but it's the same thing. Surprisingly, hardly anyone ever takes it.
 

Mewtwo

Well-Known Member
#18
MangoJ said:
Assumed she peeked before (late surrender). If she has the 10 under you push your bet. If she hasn't the 10 she must have a lower card, and you are likely to win your hand.

The only chance to lose your hand is a multicard 21, which is much more unlikely in a strong positive count.
I'm not worried about losing the hand, but rather getting a win where I would have otherwise pushed.

If the dealer has peeked for blackjack and does not have it witha 10 up, in very high counts, the probability that the dealer's hole card is also a 10 would be above 50%. In those cases, you are better off taking a half-win rather than pushing, no?
 

MangoJ

Well-Known Member
#19
Mewtwo said:
I'm not worried about losing the hand, but rather getting a win where I would have otherwise pushed.

If the dealer has peeked for blackjack and does not have it witha 10 up, in very high counts, the probability that the dealer's hole card is also a 10 would be above 50%. In those cases, you are better off taking a half-win rather than pushing, no?
Sorry, I missed that you were interested in Casino surrender. You are right, percentage holding a 10 must be above 50%. I'm not sure what the TC threshold is for that.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#20
1357111317 said:
Casinos should give players as many possible decisions as they can. The more decisions, the more they can make the wrong play. Surrender, doubling, insurance, casino surrender, everything.
Casino would be lucky to get 40 hands an hour with those options. Last time I treied to play the double Attack game at the EC, we were getting less than thirty hands per hour with the incessant rules explanations and the committees voting on how to play almost every hand.
 
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