HC'ing Practice

I'm not trying to catch you in any sort of double-standard situation, so I hope you don't misunderstand my intentions, but if you found a dealer that consistently gave 5.5/6 pen in a house where the strict rule was 4.5/6 by notch, would you go out of your way to play with that dealer instead of the other ones?

I always feel a twinge of conscience when I take a deliberate mis-pay, which I have done many times.

If I played in a place that deliberately attempted to mis-pay its customers to its advantage, I would soundly denounce that casino as one that cheats its customers every chance it gets. :flame: I am glad that casinos that I frequent do not go out of their way to not pay me fairly, since more than once I have been preoccupied with the count or other matters and simply took their word for it that they paid me correctly, such as when the payoff is a bit complex. Yes, that is my failing, and casinos do make "honest" mistakes so I should be more careful, but yes again, it's nice to deal with people who won't cheat you deliberately, but just settle for the pre-set and public advantage they already have. In some respects, it's little different than buying a car and paying more than it's worth, which we label "a reasonable profit" for services rendered (gouging aside:whip. As for the addictive element of the services rendered, is that any different than a bakery or restaurant that offers irresistible delicacies, a car dealer who offers the latest and greatest which you can ill afford, the clothier that offers the latest styles for an arm and a leg (pu), or the realtor who offers you a beach-side condominium for a mere $10,000 a month? Caveat emptor. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

But I must say, that I never returned a mis-pay until I read somewhere that it is the most convincing cover play in one's arsenal, especially if witnessed by the pit crew. "Hey, wait a minute! I think you overpaid me. *Smile* *Smile*"

All this having been said, I do not know that I possess the strength of character to return mis-pays to the "Evil Empire.":devil: I mean, all that stuff I said about the other type vendors, heck, they should be ashamed of themselves, too,:whip: if they try to sell you something you cannot reasonably afford (as in the recent real estate mortgage bubble) or that will be detrimental to your health. But business is based on greed :grin:and we've become accustomed to that as an ordinary, everyday element of engaging in it. Addictions to fine things and addictions to fat foods can both be just as devastating to the addict as addiction to gambling. Why we single out gambling to portray as greed-driven, I'm not sure. Maybe it's because they return nothing in value (a meal, a good suit, a car or a house) for the money we give them, only a passing sense of hope and exhilaration, and ultimately, despair and depression. :sad::cry:

That would not be a mis-pay, it would be a mis-DEAL. zg

Brother moo, flashing dealers is how G-D bestows His Grace upon the faithful among APs.
Do not reject His gifts of Everflashing casino beatitude or He will smite your BR down! z:angel:g

Achtung! Jackboots, mach schnell!

it is understood that it is a poker players responsibility to protect his hand, so if a poker player is flashing his own cards that is his fault and you can use that information. if the dealer is flashing players' cards in a poker game, then it is wrong to use that information, since you are taking from a player for the casino's mistakes. in blackjack you take from the casino for the casinos mistakes.

just my thoughts.

It's not that easy. So you see a dealer flash while playing poker. Do you recuse yourself from playing that hand. :laugh: Do you fold and forfeit your ante, or play the hand as if you didn't see what you saw. How do you keep a trained eye from seeing the obvious? I'm just throwing this out there, but maybe it's each player's responsibility that dealer error does not cost them money. I guess you could bring it up out loud, saying you did not want the dealer flashes to cost you your money if other players could see YOUR hand. Anyway, be prepared for some ridicule. I think it may be generally accepted by card players that all is fair short of deliberate cheating or collusion. What say thee?

Speaking of wrong payoffs.....

I was playing with someone I know and one other person on the strip. I was @ 3rd and the person I didn't know was @ 1st. Dealer gets a 5 card 21 and pays us. I glance at 1st, she glances at me, we take our money. My oblivious friend gets paid, too.

Three hands later, dealer gets a 4 card 21 and is paying us. As he is paying 1st base, the person I was with says, "Hey! Don't you have 21?"

Nice..... I had a big bet out, too (P.S. no, not the same friend).

Dealer stops, calls the floor over, I look at 1st base and she's rolling her eyes. They get everything straight and I see the floor make a call. He comes back to the table. After about five minutes, the phone rings. Another guy answers and joins the first guy watching our table. I get the feeling that they know we had been paid incorrectly on the one hand, but who knows for sure. They stay for about 5 minutes and leave.

At the time, it occured to me that maybe the dealer and 1st were colluding, but the way he paid out seemed very absent-minded, so I don't know. I did thinks that since it was my friend's remark (hands waving and all) that caught the mistake, we were probably excluded if they suspected cheating/stealing.

I have to say that I did feel a little sleazy taking the wrong payoff, and I've brought wrong payoffs to a dealer's attention in the past. For some reason, something about the 'mass wrong payoff' made me more reluctant to say something. Character flaw, I suppose.

Best ~ L.I.A.

Overpay

I also agree that overpaying should be corrected. I always used to correct dealers that overpaid me, or paid a push, etc. It seemed everytime I did that however, the dealers would just get mad. Then they call the pit boss over and it just brings even more attention to me and the fact that I notice things other players don't. I have decided to choose anonymity over any ethical qualms. Sometimes I just increase my tips. Nothing ever is black and white, its all grey.

No way in hell I am ever correcting a dealer error. Chances are surveillance isn't even going to catch it, and it isn't our job as players to tell the dealers how to deal.

I was playing one time and another HC'er (it became very obvious after a few hands) sat down right next to me. A couple minutes later his friend (I'm assuming teammate) shows up and starts talking with him.

A few hands later I am dealt a losing hand, but it's close, and the dealer for some reason gets confused and starts taking a long time to decide whether I won or not. I kind of look away to not give anything away, but the guy next to me and his friend start saying "Good hand" and "Nice win" to try and get the dealer to pay me. That was a little weird.

When they try to push my hand when I win or pay me wrong, I definitely correct them !! That's my money! I'm just saying sometimes you think you're being ethical when really no one cares, and in fact they would just rather you let it go.

I'm sure Dye wasn't meaning dealer errors AGAINST him. Does anyone here actually let a dealer error go against them????

This novice, unsure, newbie dealer was taking a while to figure out a push, so I mumble "20, Yes!!" in a celebratory manner, and she pays it off and goes to the next person.

Speaking of dealer errors. I really wanted to ask the dealer why my 18 lost to her 19 but the guy with the 18 two hands over pushed and the guy at first base with a 19 won.

But I didn't......

I've let dealer errors against me slide.

There are situations where it's correct to do so.

Really??

Well, I haven't had a situation like that in blackjack yet, but in three card there's several instances I've let errors against me slide. I'm sure you can figure out a situation where you wouldn't say anything while being short paid in some games.

Well, this might be pushing things a bit too much. But of course, at the very least don't show any dissapointment when you lose. Yes, its surprising how suggestible dealers often are, and not just the n00bs. I had a stiff hand, rest of the table had 20's and 21's, and the dealer caught a 17, and the dumb ploppy next to me yelled "Everybody won!". I was about to point out to the dummy I didn't, but lo and behold, dealer payed me off. The ploppy was right!

Can think of a few other examples of how suggestible dealers are.