2 blackjack questions

#1
1. When just playing using basic strategy, does it make any difference between playing at a table with an automated shuffling machine vs a shoe?

2. Basic counting question. When converting the running count to a true count, if the math isn't exact (example: Running Count +6/3 decks remaining, True Count = +2) how do you convert if it's, say, Running Count +8/3 decks remaining, True Count = ?

Also if I have it all wrong on how to calculate the true count, please do let me know!

Thanks in advance for any responses.
 
Last edited:

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#2
Requiem said:
1. When just playing using basic strategy, does it make any difference between playing at a table with an automated shuffling machine vs a shoe?

2. Basic counting question. When converting the running count to a true count, if the math isn't exact (example: Running Count +6/3 decks remaining, True Count = +2) how do you convert if it's, say, Running Count +8/3 decks remaining, True Count = ?

Also if I have it all wrong on how to calculate the true count, please do let me know!

Thanks in advance for any responses.
1. If your are comparing a show to a continuous shuffling machine (CSM)... Then the CSM is actually a little better for the BS player edgewise. In reality you may lose money a bit faster long run due to the fact you will play more hands per hour.

2. +8/3 = +2.6 TC. Unless you are very good at deck estimation and mental division (practice makes perfect) .. I'd call it +3 (knowing that it isn't quite Plus 3 on the close plays)
 

tribute

Well-Known Member
#5
Requiem said:
1. When just playing using basic strategy, does it make any difference between playing at a table with an automated shuffling machine vs a shoe?

.

If you mean the auto shuffler, (not CSM) there is no difference in expected results, except game moves faster.
 

tribute

Well-Known Member
#7
Blue Efficacy said:
There's no difference with CSM in expected results, either.

Blue, I know I'm "beating a dead horse" here on this subject, but help me out a little: If I, as a basic strategy player, can choose between a six deck shoe game and a four deck continuous shuffle machine (CSM), which would be the better choice? The general concensus is: 1) Fewer decks means less house advantage. 2) Consideration of the "cut card effect". 3) CSM deals more hands per hour. 4) (Did I miss one)

All considered, some experts feel the CSM still allows a slight favor in lowering the house advantage. I think, though, you will probably tell me this favor is so small, it is meaningless, and I have spent too much time even bringing up the subject again. Am I right?
 
#8
I was referring to the CSM, that would've been a better description.

Is the advantage for a BS player playing a CSM vs a shoe worth seeking out or is it very minimal?
 

bjcount

Well-Known Member
#9
daddybo said:
+8/3 = +2.6 TC. Unless you are very good at deck estimation and mental division (practice makes perfect) .. I'd call it +3 (knowing that it isn't quite Plus 3 on the close plays)
If your bad at deck estimating .... rounding up could be detrimental to ones BR, I would suggest staying risk averse and floor the TC to +2.

JMO d-bo

BJC
 

Nynefingers

Well-Known Member
#10
I calculate my betting ramps and indices using floored TCs, so I would say 8/3=2 and -8/3=-3. In reality I sometimes do it backwards...if for example the RC is 8 and 1.5 decks have been played out of 6, instead of trying to figure 8/4.5, I would think that 2*4.5=9. So since the RC is below 9, my TC is 1. If the RC had been 9 or higher, the TC is 2. Again, this assumes you floor when you convert from RC to TC.
 

assume_R

Well-Known Member
#12
Requiem said:
When estimating the decks remaining for the TC, do you have to include the cards beyond the cut card?
In actuality you should do (total # of decks which are shuffled) - (total # of cards you've seen or counted ) / 52. Feel free to estimate that however you see fit
 

bjcount

Well-Known Member
#13
Requiem said:
When estimating the decks remaining for the TC, do you have to include the cards beyond the cut card?
You include all the cards that remain in the shoe. If there's 1.5 decks in the discard rack then your divisor is 4.5 (6d game).

Ex: RC=9 decks left in shoe=4.5, 9/4.5 = TC+2

BJC
 
#14
csm's good or bad,

Hi Requiem,
Thought I might add my view on the subject of csm's verses the shoe.
I play on csm's all the time here in Townsville, and I feel that they appear to even out the game, or make it a bit smoother, I'm not quite sure what you would call it, but they seem to allow for a better mathematical probability to occur.
They don't have the very large ups and downs that the shoe has, perhaps because they contain all the 6 decks all the time, and the machine causes the cards to be placed in a more even distribution.
Playing Basic Strategy seems to be more balanced with the machine.
If the strategy is based on your 2 cards and the dealers 1 card, then it seems to fit better with the machine;
There seems to be a greater variation in the ups and downs when playing with a shoe, probably because of constant interference with the distribution of the cards by the dealer shuffling, this does not occur so much with the csm.
Just a thought.
Elkobar.
 

tribute

Well-Known Member
#15
elkobar said:
They don't have the very large ups and downs that the shoe has, perhaps because they contain all the 6 decks all the time, and the machine causes the cards to be placed in a more even distribution.
Playing Basic Strategy seems to be more balanced with the machine.

Elkobar.
Not being the "expert" here by any means, your statements make sense to me considering basic strategy computations and projections are based on continuous full decks being in play, anyway.
 
#16
tribute said:
Not being the "expert" here by any means, your statements make sense to me considering basic strategy computations and projections are based on continuous full decks being in play, anyway.
Makes sense to me too.

Well said elkobar.
 
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