Tipping?

#1
Hi, guys. I'm new to this board and also new to the game of Blackjack. Well, actually, I've known the rules of the game since I was a kid - I just never knew the proper strategy until now. I recently went to play at a casino, walked in with 60, and walked out with 140. Decent start, I suppose. My question was...is it customary to tip? Is it frowned upon if you don't?

I must admit - I didn't tip the dealer one time when I went. I was too nervous and sure as heck didn't want to over tip. I played a 10 dollar minimum game.

Any help on this is very much appreciated. :)
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#2
Two schools of thought on tipping.

School 1- Is it my fault the guy can't get a job that pays a living salary.I'm here to make money and anything I give him hurts my bottom line.



School 2- The dealer is providing a service and relies on tips to support himself. A toke or two isn't going to kill you and a happy dealer helps the game.
 
#3
What would be the proper tip amount? That's the biggest reason I didn't tip - I just wasn't sure and I wasn't going to over tip! Your School 1 comes into play...lol
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#4
If you're trying to play with an advantage, tipping will wreak havoc on your profitability, especially if you're playing small stakes.

On the other hand, it is semi-customary to tip. Dealer make the vast majority of their pay via tips, not salary. Kind of like waiters.

Evaluate your tip against the house advantage (or your advantage). Let's say you're flat betting $10. You play 21 hands (average) and get a blackjack. You feel like tipping the dealer. Well, over those 21 hands, you've given up 0.5% house advantage, or $1.05. So, if you tip a buck, then you've effectively doubled the house edge. If you tip five bucks, then you're playing at a bigger disadvantage than the roulette wheel.
 

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#5
Most dealers expect a tip if you win a high odds sucker bet or have had a winning streak. I'll tip the coffee girl and the valet, but have never tipped a dealer. The worst barb I got was after 3 blackjacks in a row I got up and left a table and the dealer belts out a sarcastic "Thanks for the tips". I guess it's a personal matter of how awkward not tipping at all makes you feel.
BW
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#6
I think you should be willing to tip a fair amount. What's a fair amount? Well, unlike waiters, dealers usually make minimum wage. So, I usually tip a blackjack dealer around 2-3 an hour. More if I'm winning, less if I'm not. If you figure 2 other players are at the table, tipping like I am, the dealer will make $11-14 an hour, which is pretty fair for semi-skilled labor.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#7
Consider comps, too

Another consideration, if you're playing for comps, is the PC's view of your tipping.

Don't forget most PC's started as dealers. If they see you stiff the dealer after a nice win, they may cut your "average bet" in the computer entry for your account, affecting your comp dollars. A good friend of mine has a cousin who is a PC, and he says he does it all the time.
 
#8
21forme said:
Another consideration, if you're playing for comps, is the PC's view of your tipping.

Don't forget most PC's started as dealers. If they see you stiff the dealer after a nice win, they may cut your "average bet" in the computer entry for your account, affecting your comp dollars. A good friend of mine has a cousin who is a PC, and he says he does it all the time.
Yes, I've observed that too. In a store where they comp table game players well, you can get your tips back and then some if you tip properly (not excessively!) In that case tipping becomes advantage play.

If you are absolutely sure you can get faster dealing or deeper pen for tipping, tip. It would be difficult to tip enough to give away the advantage you get from even one additional round being dealt out.

Finally if you believe it is morally or ethically unacceptable to not tip the dealer, tip. Never compromise your personal values for any amount of money.
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#9
shadroch said:
Two schools of thought on tipping.
This will basically sum up a huge 100-post thread about tipping. Both sides have merit.

Personally, for the OP, I tip a lot by card counting standards, but probably low by non-counting standards. I estimate my house edge to be about 1% total, but I give up about half of that in tips. At a $10 table, that's $1 for every $200 bet - or very roughly $1 for every blackjack I get (use your leftover $1's if you get BJ with an odd dollar bet out, or ask for 5 $1's if you bet an even dollar amount).

Betting along the way is much better than tipping at the end, in my opinion. Two reasons:

(1) If you don't tip during your play, you'll be expected to tip at the end if you've won, and depending on where you're playing, ploppies might tip the dealer 5-10% of their winnings (which translates to 2-5% edge), which is an absurd amount. By tipping more frequently, you can avoid the awkwardness at the end, even if you ended up tipping less.

(2) If you tip whenever you have a big bet out, you're linking the dealer's tips with your edge and sending a subtle signal that you're a long-term winner but you're willing to spread the wealth around.

Brock Windsor said:
the dealer belts out a sarcastic "Thanks for the tips".
Depending on what casino you're in, this may be against the house rules. In any case, if you feel offended, you should take it up with the pit boss.

When I was new to blackjack, my friends and I asked a dealer how much people usually tip. He gave an evasive answer about how different people give different amounts. When we pressed him, he just flat-out admitted that house rules prevented him from commenting on tips, other than the mechanics of how to give them.
 

Doofus

Well-Known Member
#10
Revolver said:
My question was...is it customary to tip? Is it frowned upon if you don't?

I must admit - I didn't tip the dealer one time when I went. I was too nervous and sure as heck didn't want to over tip. I played a 10 dollar minimum game.

Any help on this is very much appreciated. :)
Do you want to know why I tip? On my first hand when sitting down at a table, and subsequently on every dealer rotation, I put out a $5 chip in the front of the circle to play for the dealer. Occasionally I will do it in the middle of a shift.

Yesterday I had a high true count and shoved out 7 units in two circles. The dealer gets a six, I get a 20 and an 11. I double the 11 and draw an ace. The dealer makes a hand and I am looking at losing 14 units ($350). Except that he pays the bet, "mistakenly" thinking I had doubled on a 10. Swing $700 to the positive.

It doesn't work with all dealers, but if you don't make an effort to occasionally toke and always be pleasant to the dealers, errors in your favor of this sort will mysteriously vanish.

This was my first time at this dealer's table. You can be damn sure it will not be my last.
 

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
#11
Tip the dealer!

If you are playing for small stakes less than a $100 a hand break up a $5 chip and bet $1 at a time at spread out intervals. This will make the dealer like you more than if you totally stiff. Don't count on the dealer making mistakes on purpose because the dealer could get fired or written up for making mistakes. But there might be a change in attitude if you stiff vs tip especially if the dealer goes for his own but even if he doesn't the dealer wants to be able to add to the tip pile so he and his dealer friends will make more money. If you see the dealer in the bathroom slip him some cash so he will be kinder to you on the tables.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#12
Another question about tipping

What's everyone's feeling about placing another chip down for the dealer on double down or split, when you do it on your own bet? I never do it, but the ploppies do it all the time.
 

Doofus

Well-Known Member
#13
21forme said:
What's everyone's feeling about placing another chip down for the dealer on double down or split, when you do it on your own bet? I never do it, but the ploppies do it all the time.
I do it.
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#14
Doofus said:
he pays the bet, "mistakenly" thinking I had doubled on a 10.
Cardcounter said:
If you see the dealer in the bathroom slip him some cash so he will be kinder to you on the tables.
I never do this. Call me paranoid, but any dealer who would intentionally make a mistake in my favor for a few bucks would certainly do it against me if:

(a) His boss started pressuring him about the table's hold.
(b) He were cheating with another player and needed to make up the hold.
(c) For whatever reason, he felt I was not paying enough or not often enough.

Also keep in mind that giving someone money with a direct expectation of compensation may have legal ramifications.

21forme said:
What's everyone's feeling about placing another chip down for the dealer on double down or split, when you do it on your own bet?
If I do it, I'll decrease my tip frequency to compensate. I usually don't.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#15
21forme said:
What's everyone's feeling about placing another chip down for the dealer on double down or split, when you do it on your own bet?
Well, it's just more money spent tipping. The dealer would love it, of course.

You could also get clever and only split the dealer's tip if the split would actually be advantageous to his bet or not. But that's getting pretty fancy for no particular reason.

I don't usually do it. It saves money for tipping on other hands.
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#16
What a ridiculous post

Cardcounter said:
If you are playing for small stakes less than a $100 a hand break up a $5 chip and bet $1 at a time at spread out intervals. This will make the dealer like you more than if you totally stiff. Don't count on the dealer making mistakes on purpose because the dealer could get fired or written up for making mistakes. But there might be a change in attitude if you stiff vs tip especially if the dealer goes for his own but even if he doesn't the dealer wants to be able to add to the tip pile so he and his dealer friends will make more money. If you see the dealer in the bathroom slip him some cash so he will be kinder to you on the tables.
You honestly and correctly say not to expect the dealer you toke to make mistakes for you because it could get him fired or written up.
Then you somehow come up with slipping the dealer some cash in the bathroom? Do you have any clue how worse this idea is?
Toke the dealer something on the table and it is just a toke.
Slip him something in an area where no one might notice and if noticed you have an instant colusion investigation (playing with the help) that could harm both of you for basically nothing.
For the players...Let the camera see your interaction with the dealer.
For the dealer...The casino requires your interaction to be on camera.

ihate17
 
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#17
ihate17 said:
You honestly and correctly say not to expect the dealer you toke to make mistakes for you because it could get him fired or written up.
Then you somehow come up with slipping the dealer some cash in the bathroom? Do you have any clue how worse this idea is?
Toke the dealer something on the table and it is just a toke.
Slip him something in an area where no one might notice and if noticed you have an instant colusion investigation (playing with the help) that could harm both of you for basically nothing.
For the players...Let the camera see your interaction with the dealer.
For the dealer...The casino requires your interaction to be on camera.

ihate17
Not only that, one situation where I never tip is when the dealer has made a mistake in my favor. The reason is you don't know how the casino management is going to interpret that. If they decide it is a quid pro quo you can expect yourself and the dealer to be arrested. So once a dealer makes a mistake in my favor, he will not see another tip from me that night, for our mutual protection.
 
#18
Thanks, guys. Very helpful information on here. I like this Blackjack board -- smart people.

One last question though. I think some of you mentioned it, but I'm going to ask it anyway. The last time I was playing, the guy next to me was placing a bet in the circle...then putting some chips right in front (but outside) of the circle. I assume this was the tip? I didn't pay too close attention to it but I did notice it. I was just nervous and trying to focus on my own hand.

If not, what was it? And how do you tip? Just give the dealer chips after the hand is over?
 

bj bob

Well-Known Member
#19
Revolver said:
Thanks, guys. Very helpful information on here. I like this Blackjack board -- smart people.

One last question though. I think some of you mentioned it, but I'm going to ask it anyway. The last time I was playing, the guy next to me was placing a bet in the circle...then putting some chips right in front (but outside) of the circle. I assume this was the tip? I didn't pay too close attention to it but I did notice it. I was just nervous and trying to focus on my own hand.

If not, what was it? And how do you tip? Just give the dealer chips after the hand is over?
In most casinos the placement of chips outside of the betting circle (towards the dealer) indicates a "bet" for the dealer and so the final results of that bet are indeed a tip. Some houses insist that this bet is still the "property" of the player and must be physically handed to the dealer to make it a "legit" tip. Others simply allow verbal instructions. When in doubt, just ask the dealer what the specific house rules are. They'll be more than happy to explain.
When straight tipping, just take your chips and tap the felt once or twice then toss them towards the dealer.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#20
I will double my tip in a DD situation,but its really just an advance on what would have been my next tip,so it doesn't affect me at all,and increases the chances the tip will get to the dealer,as intended.
 
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