"The Color of Blackjack" improvements to KO

#41
Hi,

Ken commented early on about the effectiveness of COB in relation to 6D.

Would Ken or Mr. Dravot please comment on the whether or not the book and the method offer significant extra advantage to 2D KO play?

Thanks,
CP
 
#42
COB-2D play

CasualPlayer said:
Hi,

Ken commented early on about the effectiveness of COB in relation to 6D.

Would Ken or Mr. Dravot please comment on the whether or not the book and the method offer significant extra advantage to 2D KO play?

Thanks,
CP
Without question this methodology offers extra edge to the 2D game and keeps the ease of KO.
 

MJ1

Well-Known Member
#43
Have any other players runs simulations to compare KO and CKO? For those of you that use CKO, are you pleased with performance? Is it practical to use in casinos?

MJ
 

johnnyb

Well-Known Member
#45
Some questions.

A review and a question to Mr. Dravot or anyone else who can be of assistance (thanks in advance):

I have been practicing with the KO count for around a year and a half (which is a minor guesstimate) and have become fairly well equipt with the counting method. Recently, after I became proficient with Knockout Blackjack, I was looking on the forums and came upon the discussion of Mr. Dravot's book, The Color Of Blackjack, which happened to be yesterday. I immediately bought it wanting to learn more regarding a method I have put some time into. I really enjoy the optimization of the counting method with the use of the Frigid, Cold, Warm, and Hot area while giving the reader more betting opportunities and establishing that there actually are overbetting points beyond the Key Count based on how many decks have been dealt. The illustrations really help with the learning process which Knockout Blackjack did not have. This entire book is fascinating, truly.

Excellent job to you, Mr. Dravot, and anyone else who has helped you.

Onto the question pertaining the book:

As the betting ramp is described, specifically for a six deck shoe, I am getting minorly confused as to how I should bet. The betting ramps are placed directly on each line (the number of decks: 1, 2, 3 etc... ) Now, let's pretend there is one deck and a half in the discard tray. Do I immediately switch to the betting ramp on two decks dealt, or do I maintain the betting ramp on one deck dealt until there are actually two decks in the discard tray?

Thanks a dozen. :)
 

revrac

Well-Known Member
#46
johnnyb said:
A review and a question to Mr. Dravot or anyone else who can be of assistance (thanks in advance):

I have been practicing with the KO count for around a year and a half (which is a minor guesstimate) and have become fairly well equipt with the counting method. Recently, after I became proficient with Knockout Blackjack, I was looking on the forums and came upon the discussion of Mr. Dravot's book, The Color Of Blackjack, which happened to be yesterday. I immediately bought it wanting to learn more regarding a method I have put some time into. I really enjoy the optimization of the counting method with the use of the Frigid, Cold, Warm, and Hot area while giving the reader more betting opportunities and establishing that there actually are overbetting points beyond the Key Count based on how many decks have been dealt. The illustrations really help with the learning process which Knockout Blackjack did not have. This entire book is fascinating, truly.

Excellent job to you, Mr. Dravot, and anyone else who has helped you.

Onto the question pertaining the book:

As the betting ramp is described, specifically for a six deck shoe, I am getting minorly confused as to how I should bet. The betting ramps are placed directly on each line (the number of decks: 1, 2, 3 etc... ) Now, let's pretend there is one deck and a half in the discard tray. Do I immediately switch to the betting ramp on two decks dealt, or do I maintain the betting ramp on one deck dealt until there are actually two decks in the discard tray?

Thanks a dozen. :)
Take the 6 deck chart for example. Using his IRC's you need a count of +9 with one deck in the discard tray to increase your bet, now if you have 1.5 decks and a count of +9 you are NOT to increase your bet as you are outside of the triangle. Basically all the key spots on his charts correspond to a true count of +1. The reason the bet ramp jumps so much with more decks in the discard tray is each change in RC has more of an impact with less cards remaining. Additionally, when he says decks in the discard tray he assumes you've sat there from the beginning of the shoe, it is actually # of decks in which you've seen play.
 
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johnnyb

Well-Known Member
#47
revrac said:
Take the 6 deck chart for example. Using his IRC's you need a count of +9 with one deck in the discard tray to increase your bet, now if you have 1.5 decks and a count of +9 you are NOT to increase your bet as you are outside of the triangle. Basically all the key spots on his charts correspond to a true count of +1. The reason the bet ramp jumps so much with more decks in the discard tray is each change in RC has more of an impact with less cards remaining. Additionally, when he says decks in the discard tray he assumes you've sat there from the beginning of the shoe, it is actually # of decks in which you've seen play.
I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it is answering my question, which is not your fault. I didn't explain my question exceptionally well. Let's pretend the running count is +15 with a deck and a half dealt. Do I use the betting ramp for only a deck dealt because I haven't reached two decks yet, or should I use the betting ramp at two decks dealt? :confused:
 

BUZZARD

Well-Known Member
#48
use the betting ramp for one deck dealt till you get to 2. Better yet if it is

One deck dealt RC 9

Two deck RC 13

use 11 at 1.5

or some close estimate.2deck is RC 12 i believe? I play mostly 8 deck
 

revrac

Well-Known Member
#49
johnnyb said:
I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it is answering my question, which is not your fault. I didn't explain my question exceptionally well. Let's pretend the running count is +15 with a deck and a half dealt. Do I use the betting ramp for only a deck dealt because I haven't reached two decks yet, or should I use the betting ramp at two decks dealt? :confused:
You can do one of two things, either of which are fine. 1) interpolate. 2) use the two deck in your scenario as overbetting is more costly.
 

revrac

Well-Known Member
#50
BUZZARD said:
use the betting ramp for one deck dealt till you get to 2.
While it is going to have a negligible effect you would NOT want to use 1 deck until you get to 2, you would want to use 2 if between 1 and 2. As in the example I gave in the first response if you are using 1 deck and RC of +9 with 1.5 decks dealt your TC is less than 1 and you wouldn't want to be over betting in this situation.

Additionally, think of it this way...what if you've played only half a deck, what betting ramp are you using?
 

johnnyb

Well-Known Member
#51
revrac said:
While it is going to have a negligible effect you would NOT want to use 1 deck until you get to 2, you would want to use 2 if between 1 and 2. As in the example I gave in the first response if you are using 1 deck and RC of +9 with 1.5 decks dealt your TC is less than 1 and you wouldn't want to be over betting in this situation.

Additionally, think of it this way...what if you've played only half a deck, what betting ramp are you using?
You both have contradicted each other and therefore I do not know which one to choose. Can you please make your answers as SIMPLE as possible for understanding purposes. "While it is going to have a negligible effect you would NOT want to use 1 deck until you get to 2." This is confusing and I think it doesn't make sense, but that could just be me. So let's try again. During a 6D shoe, the running count is +15 and there is a deck and a half in the discard tray. Do I either A) Use the 1 deck bet spread or B) Use the 2 deck bet spread. Please do not complicate the answer, an "A" or "B" will do.
 

revrac

Well-Known Member
#52
johnnyb said:
You both have contradicted each other and therefore I do not know which one to choose. Can you please make your answers as SIMPLE as possible for understanding purposes. "While it is going to have a negligible effect you would NOT want to use 1 deck until you get to 2." This is confusing and I think it doesn't make sense, but that could just be me. So let's try again. During a 6D shoe, the running count is +15 and there is a deck and a half in the discard tray. Do I either A) Use the 1 deck bet spread or B) Use the 2 deck bet spread. Please do not complicate the answer, an "A" or "B" will do.
I'm sorry your having trouble understanding but I have written it as clearly as I possibly can. While I disagree with a part of what Buzzard said I have not contradicted myself. If you would finish the partial sentence that you quoted you would have your answer. I said "...you would NOT want to use 1 deck until you get to 2, you would want to use 2 if between 1 and 2."

Alternatively, you can look at post #49 which clearly states to either 1) interpolate, or 2) use two decks in the scenario you've given.
 
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johnnyb

Well-Known Member
#53
revrac said:
I'm sorry your having trouble understanding but I have written it as clearly as I possibly can. While I disagree with a part of what Buzzard said I have not contradicted myself. If you would finish the partial sentence that you quoted you would have your answer. I said "...you would NOT want to use 1 deck until you get to 2, you would want to use 2 if between 1 and 2."

Alternatively, you can look at post #49 which clearly states to either 1) interpolate, or 2) use two decks in the scenario you've given.
Thank you kind sir for your help. Much is appreciated :p
 

johnnyb

Well-Known Member
#54
One more question if you could help me out.

Would it be optimal to immediately use the 2 deck betting ramp after 1 deck has been dealt. Or would it be best to wait until a deck and a half has been dealt to start using the 2 deck betting ramp?
 

revrac

Well-Known Member
#55
johnnyb said:
One more question if you could help me out.

Would it be optimal to immediately use the 2 deck betting ramp after 1 deck has been dealt. Or would it be best to wait until a deck and a half has been dealt to start using the 2 deck betting ramp?
Optimally you would want to interpolate betting ramp and RC's according to decks played. Using the 2 deck ramp when 1.02 decks have been played would be less optimal than using the 1 deck ramp. Again though, the difference in results will be very minute. You would be safe with the idea you suggested of using 1 ramp until 1.5 and using 2 aftewards.
 
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#56
revrac said:
Additionally, think of it this way...what if you've played only half a deck, what betting ramp are you using?
^^^^this

:cow:

I generally play single deck and some double. But I bought and studied "Color of BJ" a while back for when I hit the 6-deckers. Used it for a few days a place with mostly 6-deck shoes a few weeks ago. Was great. Got lucky to sit on two great tables. First shoe I saw was at +9 about half a deck in, and got to +30 after just a 2 or 2.5 decks. Great run! I think the 4th deck dealt out was nothing but faces....at least it felt like it. The sky-high counts felt crazy just because I'm so used to single-deck KO counts which rarely get to double-digits.
 

johnnyb

Well-Known Member
#57
revrac said:
Optimally you would want to interpolate betting ramp and RC's according to decks played. Using the 2 deck ramp when 1.02 decks have been played would be less optimal than using the 1 deck ramp. Again though, the difference in results will be very minute. You would be safe with the idea you suggested of using 1 ramp until 1.5 and using 2 aftewards.
Excellent. I like that idea a lot, sir. Thanks a bunch
 
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