Blackjack Bonus sidebet on a shoe... Beatable?

#1
Hi guys. I recently ran across a blackjack game that had the sidebet "Blackjack Bonus". It pays 15 to 1 if the player or dealer (seperate bets) receives a natural blackjack. It also has a progession bonus that can be won if the player gets an Ace + Jack of spades.

I've never seen this sidebet offered on anything but a single or double deck before. It was always a "top of the deck" kind of sidebet. But here, it's on a shoe, and can be bet anytime.

Is it beatable with counting or some kind of specific Ace reckoned count? I read on another site or post that by straight counting, at a true count of +4, a player receives a blackjack in about 1 every 18 hands instead of 1 in 21 hands. This still wouldn't beat the 15 to 1 payout unfortunately.

Since I use UBZ II (formerly KO), I was wondering if there is anything I can do to make this game profitable? I'm sure that if the progression gets to a certain amount it is, but it starts at only $25 and increases really slowly. I was hoping it could be beat without even considering that aspect.. Thoughts?
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#2
ALL BJ sidebets are well-analyzed at the webpage:

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix8.html

~ and ~

http://wizardofodds.com/askthewizard/blackjack-side-bets.html

This is a particularly "sick side bet"

Bonus Blackjack:

" ... side bet called "Bonus Blackjack." I noticed it at the Sycuan casino near San Diego on October 25, 2009. The only bet amounts permitted were 50¢ and $1. The following table shows the pay table, probabilities, and return for a six-deck game. The lower right cell shows a house edge of 40.78% (ouch!). This assumes the player always tries for a 678 or 777 if possible, even if it violates basic strategy. The cost of such strategy deviations are not indicated."


Bonus Blackjack (Sycuan) — Six Decks

Hand Pays Combos Probability Return
777 500 12144 0.000404 0.201862
678 50 82944 0.002757 0.137873
Suited BJ 20 357120 0.011872 0.237447
Loser -1 29627712 0.984966 -0.984966
Total 30079920 1 −0.407784

The next table shows the house edge for various number of decks.

Bonus Blackjack (Sycuan)

Decks … House Edge
2 45.16%
4 41.92%
5 41.24%
6 40.78%
8 40.20%

 
#3
A count with the ten value cards being -2 and all cards 2 thru 9 being +1 with a side count of aces would correlate 100% to this side bet. I wouldnt want to play blackjack with it though. Hiopt II with ace side count looked like it correlates best while still being a strongly playable count.
 
#4
Flash1296, I don't think the Bonus Blackjack side bet at the Sycuan casino you are posting about is the same as the one I am discussing.

This side bet is only for getting a natural blackjack on the first two cards. No 678 or 777 or anything. That sounds more like Lucky Lucky but just for the player's cards.

tthree, so you think its possible to break even on the game, but not beat it? Damn, I was really hoping there would be a way to crush it.
 
#5
TwoHands said:
Flash1296, I don't think the Bonus Blackjack side bet at the Sycuan casino you are posting about is the same as the one I am discussing.

This side bet is only for getting a natural blackjack on the first two cards. No 678 or 777 or anything. That sounds more like Lucky Lucky but just for the player's cards.

tthree, so you think its possible to break even on the game, but not beat it? Damn, I was really hoping there would be a way to crush it.
That was not what I was saying. What I was saying is an ace neutral balanced count that correctly determines the exact ratio of ten value cards to non aces with an ace side count would give you a 100% reliable decision on when you have an advantage. The correct index for a blackjack would have to be determined from the combination of ace density to the density of the ten value cards. It might be a two dimensional index to achieve 100% accuracy. I believe it also would have the highest BC and obviously have the highest IC. It would suffer in PE however. The best count I could see in the chart I glanced at that would give up a small amount in BC and IC while gaining the most in PE was HIOPT II with ace side count. This would give more of an approximate index (but still very accurate) for the side bet.
 
#6
Now that I reread your OP. I dont think UBZ II is a good match for this bet but I am not strong in my knowledge of unbalanced counts.
 
#7
tthree said:
A count with the ten value cards being -2 and all cards 2 thru 9 being +1 with a side count of aces would correlate 100% to this side bet. I wouldnt want to play blackjack with it though. Hiopt II with ace side count looked like it correlates best while still being a strongly playable count.
Also known as the Fry Count, or the infamous JSTAT Count! A useful system for certain situations. Not bad at all for BJ itself, not as strong as High-Low on a shoe game but if you have certain sidebets you can get a lot of money down on you don't give up all that much on the BJ part.
 

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
#8
The only way that bet is beatable is if you have a first card is an ace coupon. If you have that and are allowed to bet the blackjack side bet beat the max! A 15 to 1 payoff is pretty bad I have seen a 17 to 1 payoff in other places. The odds of the top are 21 to 1 odds. With a good shoe it will get down to 18 to 1.
 

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
#9
The house edge of the top is over 24% over coming that big of a house edge is nearly impossible. For being paid 15 to 1 on blackjack. It is hard enough to over come a house edge when they pay you 19 to 1 on the shoe of about 5 or 6%. I would say at the very best maybe one out of 500 shoes at the very end of the shoe for maybe one or two hands might have a player edge of 1 or 2% but most of the time the house will have a 20% edge or better!
 

Traveller

Active Member
#12
TwoHands said:
Hi guys. I recently ran across a blackjack game that had the sidebet "Blackjack Bonus". It pays 15 to 1 if the player or dealer (seperate bets) receives a natural blackjack. It also has a progession bonus that can be won if the player gets an Ace + Jack of spades.

I've never seen this sidebet offered on anything but a single or double deck before. It was always a "top of the deck" kind of sidebet. But here, it's on a shoe, and can be bet anytime.

Is it beatable with counting or some kind of specific Ace reckoned count? I read on another site or post that by straight counting, at a true count of +4, a player receives a blackjack in about 1 every 18 hands instead of 1 in 21 hands. This still wouldn't beat the 15 to 1 payout unfortunately.

Since I use UBZ II (formerly KO), I was wondering if there is anything I can do to make this game profitable? I'm sure that if the progression gets to a certain amount it is, but it starts at only $25 and increases really slowly. I was hoping it could be beat without even considering that aspect.. Thoughts?
Twohands,

quite often casinos have bets that are very advantageous to the player, most people, including the staff can't see how to beat them. In this instance i think you might be on to a winner. I tried to pm you but it seems to be inactive.

Can you message me?

T.
 
Top