Videos on card steering?

#1
Something that duplicates the average casino conditions?

I can't sit in a casino all night and review the shuffle techniques etc. And i don't want to take a class on it. Probably don't exist anyway.

A video would be helpful.
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#2
AnIrishmannot2brite said:
Something that duplicates the average casino conditions?

I can't sit in a casino all night and review the shuffle techniques etc. And i don't want to take a class on it. Probably don't exist anyway.

A video would be helpful.
The Blackjack Science 'Advanced Techniques' DVD covers it alongside shuffle tracking and sequencing, but it does have several mistakes in it.

RJT.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#3
Yeah, Semyon’s DVD has a little section on steering. The DVD is just a basic introduction to those techniques and it leaves out a lot of the details, but there ain’t much else out there in terms of videos. You’ll probably learn a lot more playing with a deck of cards than you will from a video anyway.

For standard cutting tricks you don’t need to worry about the shuffle. That has more to do with sequencing and advanced steering.

-Sonny-
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#4
Sonny said:
Yeah, Semyon’s DVD has a little section on steering. The DVD is just a basic introduction to those techniques and it leaves out a lot of the details,

-Sonny-
I think that's a very generous description, although i did think the information was useful if you knew how to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

Merry Christmas Sonny.

RJT.
 

MAZ

Well-Known Member
#5
AnIrishmannot2brite said:
Something that duplicates the average casino conditions?

I can't sit in a casino all night and review the shuffle techniques etc. And i don't want to take a class on it. Probably don't exist anyway.

A video would be helpful.
1. Stay away from Semyons advice. He'll give you just enough to make you think you know something, but at the same time be just wrong enough to screw you if you try it.

2. If you can't, or don't want to put in the time to do it anyway, forget it. Just keep counting and looking at big jugs, you might make a few pennies and enjoy the scenery along the way.
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#6
MAZ said:
1. Stay away from Semyons advice. He'll give you just enough to make you think you know something, but at the same time be just wrong enough to screw you if you try it.

2. If you can't, or don't want to put in the time to do it anyway, forget it. Just keep counting and looking at big jugs, you might make a few pennies and enjoy the scenery along the way.
Totally agree with you on this Maz. His DVD's have more holes in them than your average sieve. They gives a slightly better example of steering than that oh so classic novel 'Busting Vegas', but they certainly shouldn't be considered any place for good advice. Hell look at the production! This guy pumped these things out just to cash in on the last of his under-whelming blackjack career. He doesn't play of practice before his 'seminars' and frankly i could have shot a better video than he did.
On point 2, steering the back card is really tough, to the point that it's not really worth it unless you are a pro and even then there are easier ways to gain a stronger advantage.

RJT.
 
#7
I'm glad I read these posts. I was about to go on Semyon's site and order his DVD.
I intend to go to some casinos New Years Day. CT. or N.J., not sure yet. I figure the tables should be pretty crowded and as I am "waiting" for a seat, I will be getting recon as I watch the shuffles.
RJT you mentioned easier ways to get a stronger advantage, would you mind sharing what you mean please?
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#8
GlenRuss said:
I'm glad I read these posts. I was about to go on Semyon's site and order his DVD.
I intend to go to some casinos New Years Day. CT. or N.J., not sure yet. I figure the tables should be pretty crowded and as I am "waiting" for a seat, I will be getting recon as I watch the shuffles.
RJT you mentioned easier ways to get a stronger advantage, would you mind sharing what you mean please?
I wouldn't say that Semyon's DVD's are worthless - they provide a practical example of the basics for a more visual learner - but you need enough information regarding the techniques external to the DVD to know what do to, as if you follow what he tells you do to you won't win.
As to the more powerful techniques - hole carding. Still very hard to master and really only a skill that a pro can use, but compared to the difficulty of steering the back card - you can get away with a lot more.

RJT.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#9
RJT said:
...they provide a practical example of the basics for a more visual learner - but you need enough information regarding the techniques external to the DVD to know what do to, as if you follow what he tells you do to you won't win.
That was the biggest problem I had with the DVD. It was just a video of his seminar, and he would say things like “When you’re steering a card you have to be careful not to misplay a hand that will hurt you too badly. Always misplay the hands that will take away the least EV. Check your packet for that information.” The problem is that the DVD doesn’t come with the packet of information…at least the DVD that I got for $10 on eBay didn’t. :p Without that information the technique is pretty much useless.

-Sonny-
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#10
Sonny said:
That was the biggest problem I had with the DVD. It was just a video of his seminar, and he would say things like “When you’re steering a card you have to be careful not to misplay a hand that will hurt you too badly. Always misplay the hands that will take away the least EV. Check your packet for that information.” The problem is that the DVD doesn’t come with the packet of information…at least the DVD that I got for $10 on eBay didn’t. :p Without that information the technique is pretty much useless.

-Sonny-
I can get the rest of the charts from the seminar if you want them Sonny?

RJT.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#12
If you aren't familiar with these techniques and you can find the DVD for $10 (as opposed to the $160 he charges) then it might be worth it. However, you will still have to do most of the homework on your own. The DVD just gives you a basic introduction to the techniques, not nearly enough info to begin using them in actual casino play. For ten bucks I'd probably buy it.

-Sonny-
 

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#13
Partner up with a Blackjack dealer and practice sequencing/tracking/steering with his/her specific shuffle. I tested this out but figured I didn't have the skills and my dealer didn't have the consistency to make it profitable in a shoe game and I worried about its legality. Maybe a pitch game would make it profitable?? Or is the shuffle in a shoe game simpler? I haven't given up on trying to incorporate these plays into my repetoire.
BW
 

RJT

Well-Known Member
#14
Brock Windsor said:
Partner up with a Blackjack dealer and practice sequencing/tracking/steering with his/her specific shuffle. I tested this out but figured I didn't have the skills and my dealer didn't have the consistency to make it profitable in a shoe game and I worried about its legality. Maybe a pitch game would make it profitable?? Or is the shuffle in a shoe game simpler? I haven't given up on trying to incorporate these plays into my repetoire.
BW
Inside the casino, any sort of partnership with a dealer - at least on where the dealer knows about it - is illegal. That said I would still highly recommend playing minimums while practicing against a specific dealer that you think you can beat before putting the money out. That isn't illegal.
As to shuffle tracking - when we are talking about packet tracking it's more about visual ability and finding the right shuffle than consistent dealers. In fact sometimes inconsistent dealers can offer the greatest advantages.
Sequencing is about finding the right shuffle, visual skills and dealer accuracy. This is a high varience game and it only gets higher if the dealer is sloppy with the shuffle or you don't follow your packet and rely on key cards.
Neither of these techniques are illegal and i'm fairly sure - although i'd have to do some research to be 100% - that both of them have been put through court to come to that conclusion. All you are doing is using information that's freely avalible to everyone at the table.
I'm not sure about the legality of back card steering. There are several experts on the game that seem to question it. While i don't take much of my advice off of Semyon, he seems to think that it's legality could be questionable. This is backed up (or indeed qualified) by James Grosjean listing steering as "possibly illegal" in BC. What the difference is between cutting skillfully to bring a good packet into play and cutting skillfully to put a good card in a certain position i don't know, but it's certainly more sketchy.
All of these techniques can and have been used in pitch games in the past, but unfortunately a lot of these opportunities have all but gone. You might find one once in a while that is beatable. If you want to use these techniques today the shoe's you're best bet. You'll still have to look for opportunites as not every shuffle provides a worthwhile bet, but you'll find a lot more of them than in pitch games.

RJT.
 
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