Is it wrong to play long?

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
#1
I've read in several books that I should limit my play to less than an hour so the Eye doesn't have a long time to analyze my play.

I have just one casino near me and it's a 4 hour drive to get there. I don't have the option to jump to the joint down the strip. And I don't want to make an 8-hour drive just to get in one hour of play.

So I'm playing longer sessions, typically 3 or 4 hours per session, and sometimes 2 sessions per day. I'm playing conservatively (I hope) with a betting spread of 1:3 or 1:4 and throwing in some camouflage plays, and my unit size is only $25.

So my question is, am I an idiot living on borrowed time, or is my approach sufficient to get me some longevity?
 

lucifer

Well-Known Member
#2
you might not be playing a real profitable game so they dont care.1 to 3 spread will lose money on a shoe game/play all, and if your doing play all for dd with a 1 to 3 spread, your winning about 20 an hour.not bad, but they might not care.if you count the 8 hour drive round trip in gas at 80 miles an hour.thats 640 miles divided by 25 mpg. thats 25 gallons of gas.2.20 a gallon is 55.00 in gas everytime you play.sounds like your frying hamburgers.throw in the stress of driving 8 hours and risking a flat and falling asleep at the wheel and you might be better off staying home and looking at free porn.
 
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#3
standard

StandardDeviant said:
I've read in several books that I should limit my play to less than an hour so the Eye doesn't have a long time to analyze my play.

I have just one casino near me and it's a 4 hour drive to get there. I don't have the option to jump to the joint down the strip. And I don't want to make an 8-hour drive just to get in one hour of play.

So I'm playing longer sessions, typically 3 or 4 hours per session, and sometimes 2 sessions per day. I'm playing conservatively (I hope) with a betting spread of 1:3 or 1:4 and throwing in some camouflage plays, and my unit size is only $25.

So my question is, am I an idiot living on borrowed time, or is my approach sufficient to get me some longevity?
Tell me about the game.

CP
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#4
Yeah, need to know the game details. You probably are not playing a +EV game now.

If it's a big place, you can extend longevity by moving from pit to pit, and also time your visits so you're splitting it between shifts.
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#5
StandardDeviant said:
I've read in several books that I should limit my play to less than an hour so the Eye doesn't have a long time to analyze my play.

I have just one casino near me and it's a 4 hour drive to get there. I don't have the option to jump to the joint down the strip. And I don't want to make an 8-hour drive just to get in one hour of play.

So I'm playing longer sessions, typically 3 or 4 hours per session, and sometimes 2 sessions per day. I'm playing conservatively (I hope) with a betting spread of 1:3 or 1:4 and throwing in some camouflage plays, and my unit size is only $25.

So my question is, am I an idiot living on borrowed time, or is my approach sufficient to get me some longevity?
Don't drive 8 hours to play conservatively. In fact, I would recommend driving or flying to someplace with more casinos and spending several days, because I would never make an 8 hour drive just to go to one casino.
 

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
#6
Game Details

Guys, thanks so much for responding so quickly. The game I am playing is an 8 deck game with a penetration down to about 2 to 1.5 decks. The rules are S17 DAS Sr RSA.

The camouflage moves I am using are the ones described in "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas" and these include:
  • Always insuring a blackjack
  • Always DD on 11
  • Always DD on 10
  • Always DD on 9 v 2
  • Stand on soft 18 v 9, 10, 11
I am also making some betting "errors" for camouflage including:
  • Starting with a 2 unit bet off the top of the shoe
  • Only increasing my bet when I win even if the count dictates that I should have more money out
  • Decreasing my bet when I lose
I understand that my EV is negative. CVCX tells me that it's about $0.09 per hand, and that’s without the playing “errors.” I am OK with that for now because I am still learning to count in the casino environment, so I don't want to ramp my bets more aggressively and raise attention. I use CV to train at home, but I find that nothing replaces real casino action for honing skills. I really look at these sessions as practice, and while I don't want to lose a fortune, I don't mind "paying" for the practice right now. Once I am completely confident that I can keep the count, while being completely casual, I'll move to a more typical spread and, eventually, a larger unit size.

I don't want to get barred from this casino because it's the only one around, and my wife enjoys coming with me for entertainment. She often plays BJ with me and she knows basic strategy but makes a lot of mistakes. I figure this gives me some additional cover. So in other words, we're looking for longevity here. I'll use more aggressive play on our (infrequent) trips to Vegas.

My assumption is that my bets are not big enough to attract attention from the Eye or the pit, and that my playing errors make me look like a novice. But maybe I underestimate what they can do from the eye. So my question is: if I sit there hour after hour playing this way, am I giving the counter catchers too much tape to review, and will they figure me out?

Again, thanks for your responses. These are my first posts here and you guys are being great and generous by responding.
 
#7
Standard

StandardDeviant said:
Guys, thanks so much for responding so quickly. The game I am playing is an 8 deck game with a penetration down to about 2 to 1.5 decks. The rules are S17 DAS Sr RSA.

The camouflage moves I am using are the ones described in "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas" and these include:
  • Always insuring a blackjack
  • Always DD on 11
  • Always DD on 10
  • Always DD on 9 v 2
  • Stand on soft 18 v 9, 10, 11
I am also making some betting "errors" for camouflage including:
  • Starting with a 2 unit bet off the top of the shoe
  • Only increasing my bet when I win even if the count dictates that I should have more money out
  • Decreasing my bet when I lose
I understand that my EV is negative. CVCX tells me that it's about $0.09 per hand, and that’s without the playing “errors.” I am OK with that for now because I am still learning to count in the casino environment, so I don't want to ramp my bets more aggressively and raise attention. I use CV to train at home, but I find that nothing replaces real casino action for honing skills. I really look at these sessions as practice, and while I don't want to lose a fortune, I don't mind "paying" for the practice right now. Once I am completely confident that I can keep the count, while being completely casual, I'll move to a more typical spread and, eventually, a larger unit size.

I don't want to get barred from this casino because it's the only one around, and my wife enjoys coming with me for entertainment. She often plays BJ with me and she knows basic strategy but makes a lot of mistakes. I figure this gives me some additional cover. So in other words, we're looking for longevity here. I'll use more aggressive play on our (infrequent) trips to Vegas.

My assumption is that my bets are not big enough to attract attention from the Eye or the pit, and that my playing errors make me look like a novice. But maybe I underestimate what they can do from the eye. So my question is: if I sit there hour after hour playing this way, am I giving the counter catchers too much tape to review, and will they figure me out?

Again, thanks for your responses. These are my first posts here and you guys are being great and generous by responding.

You will have no problem, play as long as you want. Have fun, enjoy, and forget the camo moves. You are not going to get barred.

CP
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#8
StandardDeviant said:
Guys, thanks so much for responding so quickly. The game I am playing is an 8 deck game with a penetration down to about 2 to 1.5 decks. The rules are S17 DAS Sr RSA.

The camouflage moves I am using are the ones described in "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas" and these include:
  • Always insuring a blackjack
  • Always DD on 11
  • Always DD on 10
  • Always DD on 9 v 2
  • Stand on soft 18 v 9, 10, 11
I am also making some betting "errors" for camouflage including:
  • Starting with a 2 unit bet off the top of the shoe
  • Only increasing my bet when I win even if the count dictates that I should have more money out
  • Decreasing my bet when I lose
I understand that my EV is negative. CVCX tells me that it's about $0.09 per hand, and that’s without the playing “errors.” I am OK with that for now because I am still learning to count in the casino environment, so I don't want to ramp my bets more aggressively and raise attention. I use CV to train at home, but I find that nothing replaces real casino action for honing skills. I really look at these sessions as practice, and while I don't want to lose a fortune, I don't mind "paying" for the practice right now. Once I am completely confident that I can keep the count, while being completely casual, I'll move to a more typical spread and, eventually, a larger unit size.

I don't want to get barred from this casino because it's the only one around, and my wife enjoys coming with me for entertainment. She often plays BJ with me and she knows basic strategy but makes a lot of mistakes. I figure this gives me some additional cover. So in other words, we're looking for longevity here. I'll use more aggressive play on our (infrequent) trips to Vegas.

My assumption is that my bets are not big enough to attract attention from the Eye or the pit, and that my playing errors make me look like a novice. But maybe I underestimate what they can do from the eye. So my question is: if I sit there hour after hour playing this way, am I giving the counter catchers too much tape to review, and will they figure me out?

Again, thanks for your responses. These are my first posts here and you guys are being great and generous by responding.
Well, you are a "novice" because you've admitted you're not playing a winning game. Which is fine, you can do whatever you want with your money, but don't worry about longevity.

You could probably play a whole shift with the casino manager at your table, and I doubt you'd get backed off spreading 1-3 nickels on a shoe game with imperfect basic strategy. Hell, I'm sure there are casinos where you could tell the pit boss what your were doing and he wouldn't care.
 

lucifer

Well-Known Member
#9
your losing money on that game.big time. if your trying to practice.why green chips.play 5 to 20 until you know what your doing.i cant believe your playing green chips as a rookie. when i started i played 3 dollar double deck.i spread 3 to 15. once your comfy, take a weekend trip to vegas and play for 3 days straight.you can get rooms for 20 a night right now.once you get in the system they will send you offers and with southwest you can get a free flight every 4 you book online.btw,whats with the camo.are you crazy.play 100 percent by the book.also, you didnt say how many days a week you make this trip. remember, if you are doing this 3 times a week. thats about 180 a week you spending.you better off using that money for a flight and a three night stay on the weekday.weekend will cost you more.
 
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StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
#10
You're right Lucifer, $25 is high for a person like me. I play the table mins which vary by time of day from $10 to $25. I try to play as much as possible at $10 mins but sometimes it's $15 or $25. And it's never lower than $10.
 

bjtocki

Well-Known Member
#11
I think most novices gets paranoid about heat after reading BJ books. In order for you to get barred, you have to be really really good with big bets on the table.

Just don't make the betting too obvious like raising suddenly from $10 to +$100 and from +$100 to $10, because it can be spotted miles away, unless of course you are in a winning streak, specially when the dealer is having a busting streak (because I do raise from $50 to $300 at min $10 table, because crazy gamblers do, so it looks natural, but not recommended unless you have plenty of experiences spotting the right time) and the pits know that. But of course, this kind of busting steak is very rare, so don't overdo or over bet it.
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#12
bjtocki said:
I think most novices gets paranoid about heat after reading BJ books. In order for you to get barred, you have to be really really good with big bets on the table.

Just don't make the betting too obvious like raising suddenly from $10 to +$100 and from +$100 to $10, because it can be spotted miles away, unless of course you are in a winning streak, specially when the dealer is having a busting streak (because I do raise from $50 to $300 at min $10 table, because crazy gamblers do, so it looks natural) and the pits know that. But of course, this kind of busting steak is very rare, so don't overdo or over bet it.
Meh, I think if you're betting nickels you should just play optimally. 10 to 500 in one hand is excessive, but 100 isn't overdoing it if you're grinding 20 bucks an hour out of the game.
 

lucifer

Well-Known Member
#15
frying hamburgers is an expression used by advantage players at any game(bj,poker,sports betting) that you have an advantage over the house.it means you have an advantage, but your only making minimum wage, which means its not worth playing.In your case, you are actually losing money, so your not even frying hamburgers.your being jacked in the alley after work:) BUT, since your new, and are just practicing, you have to do what you have to do.I wouldnt spread 25 to 100 thats for sure.It sounds like your well off, so keep practicing, but you are going to need to move up to a profitable game once your comfortable.
 
#16
CRAZY ROOKIE CHIPS ARE FOR AP's

Your spread should be like 1-10 or 1-15 for an 8 deck shoe. You must be hemeraging money like no tomorrow. You are in no danger whatsoever like that. you are actually the exact kind of counter the casinos love, your playing a losing game which to them is as good as someone pumping quarters into a slot machine, the only way your gonna win is with luck my friend. I assure you that you will recieve no heat whatsoever playing like this and you will not get barred at any store in the world. Go sit at the el cortez they will welcome you.
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#17
StandardDeviant said:
One other thing Lucifer, I don't fry burgers :laugh: I'm a top executive in a Fortune 500 company.
Then what are you doing worrying about cover? Fly to Vegas, go count and play some black chips, and they'll be flying you to the best games in the world before you know it. You'll be eating steak and drinking fine wine in your comped suite on your second trip.

Oh, and with the frying burgers thing, I think he was saying that you were earning somewhere in the neighborhood of minimum wage.
 

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
#18
lucifer said:
frying hamburgers is an expression used by advantage players...
Oh...See, I really am showing how little I know. Thanks for the explanation and the help. I can't believe how responsive this forum is! In other forum experiences I've had, posts can go for days before there is a response.

You guys are great!
 

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
#20
takinfromindians97 said:
Your spread should be like 1-10 or 1-15 for an 8 deck shoe. You must be hemeraging money like no tomorrow.
Yeah, I know my spread needs to widen in order to get a positive expectation. I've played around with CVCX and have a feel for what I need to do to get into a winning game.

I've just been a little unsure about whether my skills are high enough to play full out. Each time I go, I get a bit better. I can keep the count most of the time, but I can get distracted and lose it. I am also not sure yet that I "look" casual while counting. So before I play at higher spreads and units, I need to practice, practice, practice!

I'm not bleeding money, after all, even playing at a 0.5 to 1 percent disadvantage, that's only 12 - 25 bucks per hour (at 100 hands per hour), and I try to find the slow dealers (because it's easier for me to keep the count), so I'm probably not getting in 100 hands per hour. Of course...then there's our old friend, standard deviation, which causes results to vary :)
 
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