Low-cost errors in SP21

#1
For the S17 US game, can someone help me with some low-cost BS errors for cover? Fred Renzey's 2d book has a nice presentation on several BJ BS errors (e.g., stand on A,7 v. A; some soft doubles; etc.) that, as a group, cost something like .06% in HE and that make you look idiotic. Kat did not suggest anything like this. Maybe someone has figured out analogous plays for SP21? Automatic Monkey? TIA :)
 
#2
newzoomie said:
For the S17 US game, can someone help me with some low-cost BS errors for cover? Fred Renzey's 2d book has a nice presentation on several BJ BS errors (e.g., stand on A,7 v. A; some soft doubles; etc.) that, as a group, cost something like .06% in HE and that make you look idiotic. Kat did not suggest anything like this. Maybe someone has figured out analogous plays for SP21? Automatic Monkey? TIA :)
Just play SP21 basic strategy, and you will have everyone in the casino including the people who are supposed to be protecting the games screaming that you are an idiot. Add your index plays (especially the negatives) and everyone will think you're a fool headed for bankruptcy at the table. I can't imagine a need to intentionally make a mistake for cover purposes.

If you need to blend in, try the sidebet for a low amount at auspicious moments.
 
#5
Thx, AM. I agree that there are few casino employees (on the floor at least) who seem to know what the correct play is, so I suppose playing badly isn't necessary. I use plenty of indexes, but what did you mean by "especially the negatives"?
 
#6
NightStalker said:
the one which has given me most heat is hitting multi-card hard 17 Vs A..
Good point. It has to be a low return play, and it is the one easy-to-remember tip-off to a supervisor or surveillance that you know what you are doing.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#7
Automatic Monkey said:
Just play SP21 basic strategy, and you will have everyone in the casino including the people who are supposed to be protecting the games screaming that you are an idiot. Add your index plays (especially the negatives) and everyone will think you're a fool headed for bankruptcy at the table. I can't imagine a need to intentionally make a mistake for cover purposes.

If you need to blend in, try the sidebet for a low amount at auspicious moments.
The monkey is a smart ape. The entire game is a cover play :grin:

My favorite moment in Sp21 play took place along the Boardwalk, After the husband-wife ploppies next to me completed their 4th buy-in after about 2 hours of play, looked at my pile of chips and one said to the other, "boy, he sure is lucky for a lousy player."

Then there was that moment in the marina when the Russian guy sitting next to me, looked me straight in the eye after I hit my 12 v 5 and said to me, "you're an idiot."
 
#8
newzoomie said:
Thx, AM. I agree that there are few casino employees (on the floor at least) who seem to know what the correct play is, so I suppose playing badly isn't necessary. I use plenty of indexes, but what did you mean by "especially the negatives"?
I mean hitting 14 vs. 4-6 and 15 vs. 2-6. Those are surprisingly common plays that really get the muggles agitated. And not doubling a 2-card 10 or 11 vs. 7-A becomes the right play at a moderately negative count.

You don't hit a 3-card 17 vs. A in positive counts and that will eliminate a significant amount of 17-hitting.

Be prepared though, you will get a lot of abuse playing SP21 properly, especially in Atlantic City. But you'll also meet some really friendly people.
 

assume_R

Well-Known Member
#9
There were several times when ploppies asked the pit boss what "The Book" said to do. The pit bosses subsequently went to their computers, and told the player the presumably B.S. play. I've always wondered if the pit bosses were using a blackjack B.S. chart, or the correct Sp21 B.S. chart. I couldn't tell because in those particular instances the B.S. play happened to be the same...hmmm
 

pit15

Well-Known Member
#10
newzoomie said:
Good point. It has to be a low return play, and it is the one easy-to-remember tip-off to a supervisor or surveillance that you know what you are doing.
Actually i think that play saves you 2.8% of your bet (on that hand).

Why throw that away?

And besides, S21 is viewed as a carny game
 
#11
pit15 said:
...And besides, S21 is viewed as a carny game
Exactly! I think that fact is key to many of our other observations.

Casinos know blackjack players are blackjack players, and they don't expect BJ players to get up and start playing roulette or slots. But they see SP21 as a carnival game, not something with a history and a following like BJ. They also surely "read someplace" that the house edge on SP21 is 0.44%, as opposed to 2-6% like the other carnival games.

Now put that all together, and to the casino SP21 is an unprofitable distraction to their carnival game players who they'd rather see playing Let It Ride and Caribbean Stud. They think a SP21 player is a sucker who's getting off cheap with a 0.44% edge, and this is why the SP21 tables are perpetually few, full, and fermé. But they don't realize just how bad a typical SP21 player's play is and that he's giving away far more than any BJ player, as well as playing a sidebet with a 3% edge.
 
#12
Automatic Monkey said:
Exactly! I think that fact is key to many of our other observations.

Casinos know blackjack players are blackjack players, and they don't expect BJ players to get up and start playing roulette or slots. But they see SP21 as a carnival game, not something with a history and a following like BJ. They also surely "read someplace" that the house edge on SP21 is 0.44%, as opposed to 2-6% like the other carnival games.

Now put that all together, and to the casino SP21 is an unprofitable distraction to their carnival game players who they'd rather see playing Let It Ride and Caribbean Stud. They think a SP21 player is a sucker who's getting off cheap with a 0.44% edge, and this is why the SP21 tables are perpetually few, full, and fermé. But they don't realize just how bad a typical SP21 player's play is and that he's giving away far more than any BJ player, as well as playing a sidebet with a 3% edge.
As has been observed elsewhere, the SP21 play is so awful that the hold must be huge. Don't the floor people know that? And why don't the casinos raise the minimum sharply when the tables get full (which is pretty much always)?
 

pit15

Well-Known Member
#13
Automatic Monkey said:
Exactly! I think that fact is key to many of our other observations.

Casinos know blackjack players are blackjack players, and they don't expect BJ players to get up and start playing roulette or slots. But they see SP21 as a carnival game, not something with a history and a following like BJ. They also surely "read someplace" that the house edge on SP21 is 0.44%, as opposed to 2-6% like the other carnival games.

Now put that all together, and to the casino SP21 is an unprofitable distraction to their carnival game players who they'd rather see playing Let It Ride and Caribbean Stud. They think a SP21 player is a sucker who's getting off cheap with a 0.44% edge, and this is why the SP21 tables are perpetually few, full, and fermé. But they don't realize just how bad a typical SP21 player's play is and that he's giving away far more than any BJ player, as well as playing a sidebet with a 3% edge.
Do you really need more cover then hitting 13 vs 6 though?

and S21 is hardly unprofitable. Every time I've played that game, people are so averse to hitting 12/13 vs 5/6 that I haven't played once without running off at least 1 person with that play.
 
#17
Cover play

Spanish21 is considered a "carnival game" that flat out rakes it in left and right for the casinos. There IS NO NEED for any sort of "cover play". No one is going to give you a hard time about grinding a few dollars ahead at this game; They are not even going to raise an eyebrow no matter what you do at this game! This post sort of surprises me and I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone or something to where I look at next week's posts about "appropriate cover play for 3 card poker".
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#18
Tarzan said:
This post sort of surprises me and I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone or something to where I look at next week's posts about "appropriate cover play for 3 card poker".
Actually, cover play IS sometimes necessary for 3cp.

Slots would have been a better choice :laugh:
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#19
That is because the copyrighted / trademarked rights to the game are OWNED by Masque Publishing and the casino pays a per-table FEE to that company in order to offer the game to the public.

If not for that, the casinos would profit mightily by phasing out BJ, replacing the BJ tables with Span21 tables.
 
Top