Steal millions, get 2 1/2 years in prison

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#1
The Tran organization robbed at least 31 US and Canadian casinos of millions of dollars, but the head was sentenced to only two and a half years in jail.
Not only did they make laughing stocks out of the people who are supposed to be protecting these games, but it would appear they got over on the Justice Department as well. Many of the insiders( corrupt dealers ) agreed to testify and offer information in return for not being charged, and most members got off with a literal slap on the wrist.
So much for the powerful eye in the sky.
While most of the casinos were small Indian run ones, they hit the Monte Carlo and Palace Station in Vegas, Mohegan Sun in Conn and at least one unnamed casino in AC.
Their whole scam consisted of bribing dealers to do a false shuffle the organization taught them and playing the entire table against "their" dealers.
Records siezed in raids show profits as high as $50,000 from a ten minute session.
 

Katweezel

Well-Known Member
#2
Bernie Madoff got 150 years for a Ponzi scam. These Tran dudes weren't quite as heinous were they... Maybe they should only have got 75 years?
 
#3
Tran

shadroch said:
The Tran organization robbed at least 31 US and Canadian casinos of millions of dollars, but the head was sentenced to only two and a half years in jail.
Not only did they make laughing stocks out of the people who are supposed to be protecting these games, but it would appear they got over on the Justice Department as well. Many of the insiders( corrupt dealers ) agreed to testify and offer information in return for not being charged, and most members got off with a literal slap on the wrist.
So much for the powerful eye in the sky.
While most of the casinos were small Indian run ones, they hit the Monte Carlo and Palace Station in Vegas, Mohegan Sun in Conn and at least one unnamed casino in AC.
Their whole scam consisted of bribing dealers to do a false shuffle the organization taught them and playing the entire table against "their" dealers.
Records siezed in raids show profits as high as $50,000 from a ten minute session.
I say give him "Res. Justice", let those Tribes deal with him.

It makes my blood boil that he focused on small Tribal casinos that usually offer the greatest and fairest of games.:whip:

CP
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#4
Tran

Tran?
Morning all, Is there a place where i can read about this. I'm trying to get caught up in this BJ world as quick as i can.

Thanks all
Machinist
 
#7
Not quite accurate to say they "robbed" casinos. Robbery requires forcible compulsion. It annoys me to hear someone say "My house got robbed while I was on vacation," which makes no sense unless you mean someone held a gun on your butler and housekeeper in your absence.

Tran doesn't bother me any more than the casinos, and I have no more sympathy for the casinos who got ripped off than the casinos have for patrons who lose all their money. When casinos get caught screwing customers, does anybody go to jail? I have more respect for cheats than I do for casinos, at least the cheat is willing to put himself at risk directly.
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#8
Automatic Monkey said:
Not quite accurate to say they "robbed" casinos. Robbery requires forcible compulsion. It annoys me to hear someone say "My house got robbed while I was on vacation," which makes no sense unless you mean someone held a gun on your butler and housekeeper in your absence.

Tran doesn't bother me any more than the casinos, and I have no more sympathy for the casinos who got ripped off than the casinos have for patrons who lose all their money. When casinos get caught screwing customers, does anybody go to jail? I have more respect for cheats than I do for casinos, at least the cheat is willing to put himself at risk directly.
I don't like the word cheat. I prefer to stay in a very gray area. Dark areas no good!! I've seen casinos steal from chumps until they were left playing nickel machines. I feel sorry for them. Is it cheating if the dealer consistently shows a hole card?. EEhhhwellah, sort of gray area.! How about if he does it on purpose? Maybe he hates the casino himself. If a small card drops out of a deck or say 2 and no one knows but you is that cheating. Naw.
I have no sympathy for any casino. If they run a promotion, and i have 90 percent of the tickets for a drawing because i figured out how to make that happen with smart play is that cheating. Naw. Screw the bstrds!!!!!
I would never put myself at risk with such stuff. But if i can stick it to them i will with a vengence!!
2 and a half years though , what a slap on the wrist for that kind of money. Kind of gets ya thinking . If i could take Harrahs off for that kind of dough, would I? MMMMM
Don't know where i'm going with this , just some rainy day thoughts. LOL

Take care all
Machinist
 
#9
Machinist said:
I don't like the word cheat. I prefer to stay in a very gray area. Dark areas no good!! I've seen casinos steal from chumps until they were left playing nickel machines. I feel sorry for them. Is it cheating if the dealer consistently shows a hole card?. EEhhhwellah, sort of gray area.! How about if he does it on purpose? Maybe he hates the casino himself. If a small card drops out of a deck or say 2 and no one knows but you is that cheating. Naw.
I have no sympathy for any casino. If they run a promotion, and i have 90 percent of the tickets for a drawing because i figured out how to make that happen with smart play is that cheating. Naw. Screw the bstrds!!!!!
I would never put myself at risk with such stuff. But if i can stick it to them i will with a vengence!!
2 and a half years though , what a slap on the wrist for that kind of money. Kind of gets ya thinking . If i could take Harrahs off for that kind of dough, would I? MMMMM
Don't know where i'm going with this , just some rainy day thoughts. LOL

Take care all
Machinist
Not just Harrah's any casino, anywhere. The only thing that deters me from cheating is the risk of getting caught, and at times when I have determined that risk to be sufficiently low... It's a benefit/risk decision just like any other AP move.

I have tried (and failed) to financially corrupt a dealer. It's probably much easier for ethnic minorities to do it within their community.
 

Katweezel

Well-Known Member
#10
Automatic Monkey said:
Not just Harrah's any casino, anywhere. The only thing that deters me from cheating is the risk of getting caught, and at times when I have determined that risk to be sufficiently low... It's a benefit/risk decision just like any other AP move.

I have tried (and failed) to financially corrupt a dealer. It's probably much easier for ethnic minorities to do it within their community.
Is there no limit that the AP mind can rise to?
 

Canceler

Well-Known Member
#11
Answering a rhetorical question…

Katweezel said:
Is there no limit that the AP mind can rise to?
Way back when I first got interested in blackjack, I used to lurk at the original CardCounter.com. Let’s just say The Mayor used to encourage keeping an open mind about possible ways to beat the casino. I think it is part of the AP mindset.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#12
Seems to me a person willing to steal from a casino would be just as likely to figure out a way to justify stealing from me.
Equating being a thief with being an AP is an insult, but goes along way towards explaining some posters lack of self-esteem.
 
#13
shadroch said:
Seems to me a person willing to steal from a casino would be just as likely to figure out a way to justify stealing from me.
Equating being a thief with being an AP is an insult, but goes along way towards explaining some posters lack of self-esteem.
Illogical. I'd kiss a girl, does that mean I'd kiss you? You aren't a girl or a casino so you have nothing to worry about.

I get my self-esteem from being honest in admitting the only thing that keeps me from cheating at the table is the risk of getting caught. Far better than phony piety.
 
#15
shadroch said:
Confessing about trying to steal is a long way from being honest.
Honesty is a situational term in our trade. If a PC walks up to you at the table and asks you "Are you counting?" are you going to answer him honestly?

Once we cross that line of deceiving a casino and doing something they don't want us to do and that harms them when we do it, what's the difference between counting and cheating other than that one is legal and one isn't? You know that they treat certain types of AP's like criminals, and that if they could make counting or holecarding illegal they would. They've tried.

Being that the only difference between AP and cheating is the law, the only thing that restrains me from cheating is the law. (In fact, the only thing that defines cheating is the law- devices once were legal but now are not- does God look differently on an activity based on what a human judge says?) If they managed to get counting outlawed, we would have a decision to make, but it wouldn't be a moral decision, because if it isn't immoral now it wouldn't be immoral then.

Hopefully I have clarified the difference between cheating a casino and cheating another AP or a civilian.
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#16
Automatic Monkey said:
Illogical. I'd kiss a girl, does that mean I'd kiss you? You aren't a girl or a casino so you have nothing to worry about.

I get my self-esteem from being honest in admitting the only thing that keeps me from cheating at the table is the risk of getting caught. Far better than phony piety.
What about legitimate piety?
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#17
People who tend to be immoral think everyone is like them.
I lost out on a million dollar deal because the seller was crooked and couldn't concieve that everyone wasn't out to screw him.
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#18
like minded

There are some axioms to ponder in life and how true they may or may not be. All theives think that everyone steals just like drug addicts think everyone does drugs. The list goes on forever with almost anything you want to justify. If you want to steal something you should make sure it was worth the risk. We all know what risk is here on this site.
 

Katweezel

Well-Known Member
#19
shadroch said:
People who tend to be immoral think everyone is like them.
I lost out on a million dollar deal because the seller was crooked and couldn't concieve that everyone wasn't out to screw him.
I'd got the impression that you could smell a rat from a mile off. How come you never smelled his stink well before the crap hit the fan? Was his name Madoff by any chance?
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#20
Katweezel said:
I'd got the impression that you could smell a rat from a mile off. How come you never smelled his stink well before the crap hit the fan? Was his name Madoff by any chance?
No, it wasn't. It was a deal for two million comics that had over the years been returned from newstands and had been reported as destroyed. When I was first offered them, I considered them as being swag and turned down the offer. However, a little due diligence suggusted they may be considered abandoned property if the rightful owners relinguished their claim. I approached Marvel Comics and was told they had no inventory, no warehousing and no interest in books that were published long before the present ownership came aboard. With that in writing, I pursued the deal.
I offered almost double the next highest offer, with terms that any legitimate businessman would have been happy with. Turned out the "owners" of the books were mobbed up and routinely entered into shady business contracts only to go bankrupt and end up with the material for pennies on the dollar. He couldn't concieve that I wouldn't do the same thing to him. He ended up getting less than $150,000 in cash for books worth ten times that. My offer would have given him double that in just three years.
To read the buyers side of this deal, google- The Mile High 2 Collection", but please keep in mind, memeories get fuzzy after twenty years and we were all doing a good deal of drugs back then. It was,after all, the roaring 80s.
 
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