Super Fun 21

apex

Well-Known Member
#1
Most seem to dismiss this game for card counting, but I would like to hear what you guys have to say about it. This Wizzard of odds has the 2 deck house edge at 1.3%. This means we can't really up our bets until TC=3, which is pretty bad.

On the other hand, the pen I have seem is always great, 85% or better. Heat is usually not an issue even spreading 1-20, and I think these rules probably favor the player even more in high counts than is figured into the off the top edge:

Player may hit and double down to split aces.
Player may take late surrender on any number of cards.
Player may surrender half of total bet after doubling, what is called "Double Down Rescue" in Spanish 21.

Is it still not worth playing compared to a good DD game even after considering all of these things?
 

21gunsalute

Well-Known Member
#2
I'm not familiar with this game, but I think all you need to know is what you've already stated: "This Wizzard of odds has the 2 deck house edge at 1.3%." So why bother with it?
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#3
apex said:
Most seem to dismiss this game for card counting, but I would like to hear what you guys have to say about it. This Wizzard of odds has the 2 deck house edge at 1.3%. This means we can't really up our bets until TC=3, which is pretty bad.

On the other hand, the pen I have seem is always great, 85% or better. Heat is usually not an issue even spreading 1-20, and I think these rules probably favor the player even more in high counts than is figured into the off the top edge:

Player may hit and double down to split aces.
Player may take late surrender on any number of cards.
Player may surrender half of total bet after doubling, what is called "Double Down Rescue" in Spanish 21.

Is it still not worth playing compared to a good DD game even after considering all of these things?
All those things are factored in to the 1.3% house edge. The socalled good rules don't come close to evening out the bad rules.
 
#5
Brock Windsor said:
(Dead link: http://web.archive.org/web/200502051...SuperFun21.htm)
Here - link fixed >>
http://web.archive.org/web/20021015062915/http://cardcounter.com/SuperFun21.htm

It was 2001 and OCKO had stated emphatically that SF21 was "not beatable" - I corrected his assessment and enlightened him as to what myself and a few others were doing. OCKO being a Wharton graduate proceeded to develop his more definitive analysis and count.

The game was quite viable 2000-2002 because they were dealt deep and a very large spread was ignored by mgmt because they knew it was 'not beatable.'

Since those early days I have seen poor pene and counters getting backed off.

The best plays I've gotten down is with inexperienced dealers who allowed me to early surrender against Ace. zg
 

apex

Well-Known Member
#6
zengrifter said:
The best plays I've gotten down is with inexperienced dealers who allowed me to early surrender against Ace. zg
On a similar note, when playing Spanish 21 I have sometimes been able to surrender a 3 card 16 versus an Ace. Doesn't add too much to your edge but worth a try.
 
#7
rather unbeatable

Superfun is unbeatable today, unless there's some special circumstance, like extremely deep pen, or as Z mentioned, if you can get ES or some other fun malfunction.

All those bets played at a -1.3% edge hurt a lot, even with a 1:20 spread.
 
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