Csm's

[jay28]

I recently took a friend to his first casino experience. I'm currently learning to count cards for a hobby and thought it might be good to get a little real play at the same time.

Unfortunately, I picked a casino which uses CSM's. Every other round of cards was returned to the CSM with just 1 rounds cards left in the discard. I thought counting wouldn't be an option and decided to play BS just for fun.

ON one partular hand I was dealt 34 with the dealer showing a 7. I strangely hit five 2's and stood on 17. I was first to play so paid close attention to the other hands. No 10's or A's were dealt in any hand (6 inc dealers) There was a running count of 22, so i estimated the TC to be approx 4.

I then raised by bet from the table min of £2 to £20 and was dealt 88 (dealer with a 6) I split then watched the dealer bust and give me £40.

Anyway, I am wondering if it is possible to make money counting CSM games if the table is full? I realise the TC is never going to get very high but there wouldn't be a negative count for long either. The table limits on this game are £2 - £500.

Any thoughts?

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by jay28

I realise the TC is never going to get very high but there wouldn't be a negative count for long either.

That’s true, but the problem is that a neutral (zero) count still gives the house an advantage. The count will almost always be close to zero so the house will almost always have the advantage. A 6D game with 75% penetration will only have a positive TC about 25% of the time. The game you are talking about offers maybe 8% penetration. In the extremely rare case that you find a positive count, it won’t be worth very much and it will not last very long. You can count all you want but you won't make any money.

-Sonny-

[Harman]

Originally Posted by Sonny

That’s true, but the problem is that a neutral (zero) count still gives the house an advantage. The count will almost always be close to zero so the house will almost always have the advantage. A 6D game with 75% penetration will only have a positive TC about 25% of the time. The game you are talking about offers maybe 8% penetration. In the extremely rare case that you find a positive count, it won’t be worth very much and it will not last very long. You can count all you want but you won't make any money.

-Sonny-

I have to agree with Sonny. If you are out for some fun with friends then by all means you can play with CSMs but if you are actually trying to make profit by beating blackjack then you'll have to try a different casino.

Good luck

[jay28]

do you think this could work with a very wide betting spread:-

T>2 - £2
T2+ - £100
T3+ - £300
T4+ - £500

The casinos aren't gonna suspect anyone of counting, so a very wide spread is possible.

Also, casino's make 20% extra per hour because of the increased speed of game play, which also means the player see's 20% more opertunities for a TC of 2+ per hour.

[moo321]

Originally Posted by jay28

do you think this could work with a very wide betting spread:-

T>2 - £2
T2+ - £100
T3+ - £300
T4+ - £500

The casinos aren't gonna suspect anyone of counting, so a very wide spread is possible.

Also, casino's make 20% extra per hour because of the increased speed of game play, which also means the player see's 20% more opertunities for a TC of 2+ per hour.

Yes, that could work. But if you have the bankroll to spread like that, you have the bankroll to find a better game.

[Harman]

To be honest, I'd leave CSMs well alone, sorry

[Nutorious]

Sorry which casino is this you went too? I am going on a casino trip and i dont want to waste my time in that one if i am unlucky enough to pick it.

Cheers.

[jay28]

Originally Posted by Nutorious

Sorry which casino is this you went too? I am going on a casino trip and i dont want to waste my time in that one if i am unlucky enough to pick it.

Cheers.

This was the grosvenor casino in great yarmouth.

I have also recently visited the Mint casino in great yarmouth (Stanley Matthews chain i think) here they have two blackjack tables. the first is a £2 minium and uses a CSM but you get between a 1 to 2.5 deck pen before card are returned, depending on the dealer. Still crap I know but better than the grosvenor.

The second table doesn't have a CSM, has a £5 min but I have no idea on pen because the table was closed due to the casino being quiet on a sunday evening.

I also tried to go to the new palace casino but couldn't get in, as their dress coded is no jeans or trainers.

Correct me if i'm wrong but I think a lot of the British casinos use CSM's on lower stakes tables to speed up game play and in turn make a larger profit.