The attack of the Wongers?

[blackchipjim]

I must be imagining the increase in wongers in the casino I frequent. I can go there anytime of the day and someone is backcounting the deck. I would think that someone that is backcounting would be a little less subtle about. To those who use wonging please work on your technique and don't be so obvious about it. The dealers are well aware of what you are doing and take shuffle measures against you and the people at the table enter. If you aren't going to try to camoflage the fact don't be surprised if you get banned for the fact. blackchipjim

[jack,jackson]

I was kinda curious how Bad the problem had become. It amazes that all games havent become NMSE. In the end, I feel 21 movie, has made a negative impact on the game!

[Brock Windsor]

Originally Posted by jack,jackson

I was kinda curious how Bad the problem had become. It amazes that all games havent become NMSE. In the end, I feel 21 movie, has made a negative impact on the game!

I haven't seen a game with over $1000 table max that allows mid-shoe entry in a while, I guess they still have them in Nevada. Low level AP isn't going to sweat management too much.
BW

[Tom007]

Originally Posted by jack,jackson

I was kinda curious how Bad the problem had become. It amazes that all games havent become NMSE. In the end, I feel 21 movie, has made a negative impact on the game!

My trip to Vegas at the end of May certainly gave the answer to the effect of the movie 21. Downtown they were hawking my play so bad I couldn't enjoy it, in fact it made me not want to play at all, I guess that is the point of heat, anyway, Last year's trip I was playing at a higher betting level and never noticed any heat at all. This year I got my first 2 back offs, both downtown.

The funny thing is I was jumping in on freshly shuffled shoes and wonging out at -1. I never really had a monster shoe the count was close to neutral for all the hours I played DT

In the end I just started playing the strip and no problem there.

[blackjack avenger]

The effect of the movie 21 is probably to fill the casinos with players who know enough to lose their money.

Just like when Thorpe came out with his book.

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by blackjack avenger

The effect of the movie 21 is probably to fill the casinos with players who know enough to lose their money.

Just like when Thorpe came out with his book.

Or when Bringing Down the House came out.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by blackjack avenger

The effect of the movie 21 is probably to fill the casinos with players who know enough to lose their money.

Just like when Thorpe came out with his book.

I agree, but the casinos haven’t realized it yet. The movie will increase their drop by getting more people in the casino, and their hold will increase because they will be raising their bets but still playing at a disadvantage. Unfortunately, just like with Thorp’s book, the casinos will be super-paranoid for a while until they wise up. The only alternative would be to hire competent employees who can actually tell the difference between good players and ploppies, but the casinos will never go for that. They’ll just ruin their games, annoy their players and lose profits until they get the hint. That movie is a golden opportunity for them but they are going to waste it because they don’t know how to use it to their advantage. I guess that’s why all the advantage players are on the other side of the tables. We would never let an opportunity like this slip away.

-Sonny-

[jimmtech]

Originally Posted by blackchipjim

The dealers are well aware of what you are doing and take shuffle measures against you and the people at the table enter. If you aren't going to try to camoflage the fact don't be surprised if you get banned for the fact. blackchipjim

I think it depends entirely on the particular casino - last week in WV, at the same table the first dealer kept spilling the cards and had to get help with how to shuffle; the next dealer could offer NO suggestions to a newbie - the dealer just kept saying she did not play blackjack and didn't know what the best move would be (repeatedly). The third dealer was probably grateful just to still be above ground and I really thought he was forgetting what he was doing between the 10 seconds it took to deal each card.

Admittedly, some dealers are very sharp, but more often than not, I have seen the reverse.

Also, ploppies have great reasons for watching before entering -

I was wait'in to see the dealer bust...

I was wait'in to see if the dealer can pay the table..

I've been so burned, I want to make sure the dealer is beatable...

Win without counting says to never enter a table until you see the dealer's upcard come up as a low card at least 3 out of 5 times...

"I don't want to get slaughtered again..."

Wongers can be too obvious, but perhaps spewing ploppyisms can help..

[jack,jackson]

Originally Posted by Brock Windsor

I haven't seen a game with over $1000 table max that allows mid-shoe entry in a while, I guess they still have them in Nevada. Low level AP isn't going to sweat management too much.
BW

Interesting. Ist been awhile since Ive seen any action, but hopefully that'll change soon.

Originally Posted by Tom007

My trip to Vegas at the end of May certainly gave the answer to the effect of the movie 21. Downtown they were hawking my play so bad I couldn't enjoy it, in fact it made me not want to play at all, I guess that is the point of heat, anyway, Last year's trip I was playing at a higher betting level and never noticed any heat at all. This year I got my first 2 back offs, both downtown

.
Maybe it was just the wrong place at the wrong time.

I have a feeling everybody wants a piece of the action and counters are coming out of the woodwork. In effect, creating over zealous pitbulls, with lousy rules.

Originally Posted by Tom

The funny thing is I was jumping in on freshly shuffled shoes and wonging out at -1. I never really had a monster shoe the count was close to neutral for all the hours I played DT

Ya, I dont think it matters if the shoe was hot or not. They get suspicious when somebody bumps from 10$ to 100$.

Its one thing to wong in and out, once or twice per shoe, but when you sit at a table and do it consistently. Well I guess some players are just asking to get backed-off.

[blackchipjim]

I geuss it comes down to doing your homework. If anyone has read any books on counting and they come across the section on wonging it tells you not to be obvious or go when the casinos are crowded. The kids with their ballcaps on backwards and sunglasses on are laughable and are better suited in the poker room. I can't tell you how many people stand behind the table from the begining of the shoe and then on top of it jump in after the count tanks. I take a well timed bathroom break and they aren't anywhere around. I myself wong out and never have and pretty sure never will recieve any heat. blackchipjim