Wonging with Unbalanced Count

[BlodiaInc]

I am using Kiss III and know that the walkaway numbers given by Renzey in BBII for a 6 deck shoe is at a RC of 4 or below with 1.5 decks played....

Is it possible to effectively wong in and out with an unbalanced count? How would you go about figuring out the calculations to do so. If you used an unbalanced count with wonging, please help me out... does not have to be specific to Kiss III

[Renzey]

Originally Posted by BlodiaInc

I am using Kiss III and know that the walkaway numbers given by Renzey in BBII for a 6 deck shoe is at a RC of 4 or below with 1.5 decks played....

Is it possible to effectively wong in and out with an unbalanced count? How would you go about figuring out the calculations to do so.

With Kiss III, it's really quite easy -- especially for wonging in. Just jump in whenever the RC reaches "20". There, your TC will always be between +1.3 and +1.8 regardless of where in the shoe you are.

For wonging out, you need an understanding of what makes an unbalanced count tick. With Kiss III (and Red 7, but not KO), if the TC remains "0", the RC will rise 2 points for each deck that gets played out. So when you're two decks into the shoe, a neutral RC at that point would be "13". Three decks in it would be "15" and at four decks it would be "17", etc. Get those nembers fixed in your mind:
off the top -- "9"
one deck in -- "11"
two decks in -- "13"
three decks in -- "15"
four decks in -- "17"

Now, say you want to wong out at -1.5 true. Here's the key. Whenever your RC is below "neutral" by 1.5 times the number of remaining decks, the TC is -1.5. So if you're 2.5 decks into the shoe where a neutral count would be "14", since 3.5 decks are left, a -1.5 true count would occur at "9" (8.75).
Using that format, you can prepare a set of wongout numbers to use throughout the shoe.

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by Renzey

Get those nembers fixed in your mind:
off the top -- "9"
one deck in -- "11"
two decks in -- "13"
three decks in -- "15"
four decks in -- "17"

If you have to do deck estimation in order to Wong out properly, isn't it easier to use a balanced count?

[prankster]

I also use KISS III-I Wong in at 20 or higher-go to the restroom if it seems the count is heading south. Frank Scoblete suggests waiting 'til two decks are dealt, and of course the count be elevated before you Wong in.
I've found Wonging and KISS III work real well together.

[BlodiaInc]

Originally Posted by Renzey

With Kiss III, it's really quite easy -- especially for wonging in. Just jump in whenever the RC reaches "20". There, your TC will always be between +1.3 and +1.8 regardless of where in the shoe you are.

For wonging out, you need an understanding of what makes an unbalanced count tick. With Kiss III (and Red 7, but not KO), if the TC remains "0", the RC will rise 2 points for each deck that gets played out. So when you're two decks into the shoe, a neutral RC at that point would be "13". Three decks in it would be "15" and at four decks it would be "17", etc. Get those nembers fixed in your mind:
off the top -- "9"
one deck in -- "11"
two decks in -- "13"
three decks in -- "15"
four decks in -- "17"

Now, say you want to wong out at -1.5 true. Here's the key. Whenever your RC is below "neutral" by 1.5 times the number of remaining decks, the TC is -1.5. So if you're 2.5 decks into the shoe where a neutral count would be "14", since 3.5 decks are left, a -1.5 true count would occur at "9" (8.75).
Using that format, you can prepare a set of wongout numbers to use throughout the shoe.

Wow, Mr. Renzey... thanks for the info... i will be back with my wonging numbers to check in.

[Renzey]

Originally Posted by callipygian

If you have to do deck estimation in order to Wong out properly, isn't it easier to use a balanced count?

At that point, they'd both require the same exercise. For unbalanced, you'd have a pre-calculated and pre-memorized set of departure numbers that say, "At 1, 2, 3 and 4 decks in, I'll wong out at an RC of A, B, C and D respectively".
With balanced, to avoid having to determine your TC on the spot, you'd wong out according to the RC in exactly the same way. I lean towards the belief that knowing all these trip points in advance beats re-calculating the same things over and over during play.

[zengrifter]

I wonder if KISSI-III is now the most used UB system? zg

[eps6724]

I don't trust myself mathematically, so I went with the unbalanced idea (Yes, Kiss III. Oddly enough I learned red7 first, so am comfortable with negative starting numbers, with my pivot coming at 0. Don't ask me...). What I can tell you from my experience, is that when I wong in I usually (O.K., almost ALWAYS) make money. When I wong out I usually make (or, at the least) don't lose much, but when I (for whatever stupid reason enters my pea brained mind) sit through the whole shoe, I don't do nearly as well.

Trust the Kiss III, and wong! I think Rogue has pretty much had the same results.

[eps6724]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

I wonder if KISSI-III is now the most used UB system? zg

The fact that the author is quick to answer any questions in a helpful, kind way certainly speaks volumes for the ease!

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by eps6724

The fact that the author is quick to answer any questions in a helpful, kind way certainly speaks volumes for the ease!

Right. Hey Fred - you should mention in the Bluebook that you give reader customer service at BJINFO! zg