clarification required for BS usage

[ch5497]

Firstly, hello to everyone!

I've had something of an obsession with blackjack since last weekend - prior to doing some research on the game last saturday night / sunday morning I thought every game in casinos against the house had negative EV for the player. Since learning that BJ can be beaten I've put in a few hours of practice every night and already seem have BS down (6D S17 DOA DAS no peek) and I've been counting my way (Hi - Lo) through a deck in 40 seconds consistently since yesterday.

These forums have been an excellent (and often hilarious!) source of information, although I have a few questions to which I haven't encountered the answer to as yet and was hoping somebody could help me or point me in the right direction for more information.

Firstly, I have some books on order (Best Blackjack by Scoblete, Frank and Blackjack Bluebook II) which I am hoping will make for good reading, but at present I am struggling to make sense of how BS and CC are used at the tables. Am I right in thinking that the appropriate BS is always played, regardless of what the count is - the bet size being the only variable? Or does the actual BS change as the count changes, such that if you know the count is very low then the chances of hitting a ten are also very low and as such standing on 12 for example against a 4 doesn't seem to make as much sense?

Also (and I apologise if this one sounds too "noob"), but I've often seen the figure of -1% for the house advantage quoted as the advantage a good card counter could have against certain games - does this translate as a profit for the player of 1 unit for every 100 units bet or does it mean something entirely different?

Any help anyone can give on these points would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by ch5497

Firstly, hello to everyone!

I've had something of an obsession with blackjack since last weekend - prior to doing some research on the game last saturday night / sunday morning I thought every game in casinos against the house had negative EV for the player. Since learning that BJ can be beaten I've put in a few hours of practice every night and already seem have BS down (6D S17 DOA DAS no peek) and I've been counting my way (Hi - Lo) through a deck in 40 seconds consistently since yesterday.

These forums have been an excellent (and often hilarious!) source of information, although I have a few questions to which I haven't encountered the answer to as yet and was hoping somebody could help me or point me in the right direction for more information.

Firstly, I have some books on order (Best Blackjack by Scoblete, Frank and Blackjack Bluebook II) which I am hoping will make for good reading, but at present I am struggling to make sense of how BS and CC are used at the tables. Am I right in thinking that the appropriate BS is always played, regardless of what the count is - the bet size being the only variable? Or does the actual BS change as the count changes, such that if you know the count is very low then the chances of hitting a ten are also very low and as such standing on 12 for example against a 4 doesn't seem to make as much sense?

Also (and I apologise if this one sounds too "noob"), but I've often seen the figure of -1% for the house advantage quoted as the advantage a good card counter could have against certain games - does this translate as a profit for the player of 1 unit for every 100 units bet or does it mean something entirely different?

Any help anyone can give on these points would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

your instincts are good about the idea of deviating from basic strategy.
there are hundreds of basic strategy departures for various indices.
maybe the most important are what we call the illustrious 18 & Fab 4
this link should get you started:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...9&postcount=11

Renzey's book is excellent. not sure about the other.

and yeah the 1% thing is a ballpark idea of what you might make on your bets over the long haul. it's an average sort of thing so your going to have a spread of win amounts and lose amounts over the expected amount as you play along.

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by ch5497

Also (and I apologise if this one sounds too "noob"), but I've often seen the figure of -1% for the house advantage quoted as the advantage a good card counter could have against certain games - does this translate as a profit for the player of 1 unit for every 100 units bet or does it mean something entirely different?

Just to clarify, I believe you are using terms correctly, but in case you're confused, EV is generally used to refer to the player. An EV of +0.01 is a 1% advantage in the player's favor, and an EV of -0.01 is a 1% advantage in the house's favor. You can use EV for the house, such that negative EV's refer to player advantage, but that's non-standard and might confuse people.

What you wrote is correct - a counter should be able to achieve a 1% edge on the house, or an EV of +0.01, or a house advantage of -1%.

EV is always expressed as units won divided by units bet. So an EV of +0.01 for the player refers to a $1 win for every $100 bet. Because the bet size varies, usually an average bet is used to calculate win per hour (which is the EV times the average bet times the hands per hour).

[Mimosine]

Originally Posted by callipygian

An EV of +0.01 is a 1% advantage in the player's favor, and an EV of -0.01 is a 1% advantage in the house's favor.

What you wrote is correct - a counter should be able to achieve a 1% edge on the house, or an EV of +0.01, or a house advantage of -1%.

I think you're mistaken by two decimal places.

A house edge of 0.01, is not 1% but 1 100th of a percent.
A house edge of 1.54 is 1.54%, not 154%.

thus a typical house edge of 0.54 (6D H17 DS LS) gives the house a 0.54% edge against the player, taking away 54 cents for every $100 wagered. correct me if i'm wrong.

[shadroch]

A decimal here,a decimal there.
a million here,a million there.
Pretty soon,we're talking real money.

[jimpenn]

First of all, the game rules you are playing seem good. Have you been to the casino and evaluated the penetration? In addition, what do you mean when you mention "no peek.?"

I'm from the North East/Mid-Atlantic region and no casino's within a reasonable drive from my home deals a 6D game with exception of High Roller Rooms.

As mentioned above, my first evaluation when I enter a casino is penetration and table management.
Locally where I play 8D, etc. they close pits and tables so as to keep full tables for a number of reasons. I guess the first is back-counting, and cost control.

Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions you feel not appropriate to ask forum at this time.

jp

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by Mimosine

I think you're mistaken by two decimal places.

A house edge of 0.01, is not 1% but 1 100th of a percent.
A house edge of 1.54 is 1.54%, not 154%.

thus a typical house edge of 0.54 (6D H17 DS LS) gives the house a 0.54% edge against the player, taking away 54 cents for every $100 wagered. correct me if i'm wrong.

percent = (part/whole)(100%)

%=(p/w)100% where p = 0.01 & w = 1 same as p = 1 & w = 100

1%= (0.01/1)100% = (1/100)100%

1%/100% = 0.01

so if you say a house edge of 0.54 that is not a percentage. you make it a percentage by multipying by 100%. where a 0.54 edge is the part of the edge of one part. so for one hand the house has a 54% edge on you.
i think that's right.
but if it is right then the basic strategy engine on this site makes a misnomer when it say 0.54% edge for some game? http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php note it gives 0.44% casino edge.
lmao now i think i gotta be wrong!
edit:===>>> ok think i know the flaw in how i'm seeing it. i been falling into the trap of thinking hands won and hands lost percentage instead of money won and money lost percentage. and i think when you talk ev your talkin money won to money lost and usually expressed in terms of a percentage. so but i think too whats been confusing about the thread is if someone says ok 0.54 edge as opposed to saying 0.54% edge. but anyway it's allways money won to money lost is the advantage.
just 0.54 edge would be 0.54 parts money won to 1 part money lost. where as 0.54% edge would be 0.54 parts money won to 100 parts money lost. a big differance where it's actually a 0.0054 edge or 0.0054 parts money won to 1 part money lost.
so the basic strategy engine terminology is off course correct lmao.

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by Mimosine

I think you're mistaken by two decimal places.

A house edge of 0.01, is not 1% but 1 100th of a percent.
A house edge of 1.54 is 1.54%, not 154%.

thus a typical house edge of 0.54 (6D H17 DS LS) gives the house a 0.54% edge against the player, taking away 54 cents for every $100 wagered. correct me if i'm wrong.

I'm positive I'm right, sorry.

A typical house edge is 0.54%, or an EV of -0.0054 for the player, or an EV of +0.0054 for the house, or a player loss of $0.54 per $100 bet.

A non-typical house edge of 0.54 would correspond to an EV of -0.54 for the player, or an EV of +0.54 for the house, or a player loss of $54 per $100 bet.