Foxwoods update - and Comp. System Continued

#1
Been a while since I've posted.

SECTION REMOVED PER REQUEST

On the comp system: Remember that how much money you have at the table is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is how big your bets are.

Most PBs rate me in the $100-$200/hand range (I work a $25 unit and spread 1-30, sometimes up to 36). My average playing time works out to be around 4-6 hours on a given day, and I usually wind up making just under 100 points (except for one notable time at Mohegan, where I was betting 100/unit, and spreading 1-24...350 points).

This being said - feel free to ask your PB what he/she has your average at. I frequently do this when I'm betting huge, because it brings attention to the large bets and they'll almost always bump your average up (remember, it doesn't calculate minute-to-minute, whatever your FINAL average for a session is, THAT'S what you get...so if I play 5 hours at $25 avg, then get bumped to $100 for an hour and leave, I get that $100 avg for ALL SIX HOURS).

On the paragraph above, you might want to refrain from calling attention to the big bets if you're scared of heat. Personally, even with my egregious bet spreads and action (300/3 is legit action according to a PB I'm friendly with lol), I have NEVER, not ONCE received heat. Maybe it's because all the PBs know me now, maybe it's because I don't act scared of them, who knows. Heat has never been an issue, and you can use that to your advantage.

All this being said, I stumbled across a very +EV situation a while back at FW that I thought I'd share....who here knows about the Player's Clubs (not the Dream Points program)? Raise your hand. These Player's Clubs are scattered about the casino and basically, they're free meals (no-points-subtracted-from-your-DP-card free). Depending on which one you go to, they range from small and sometimes cramped, to open, luxurious, and pretty effing sweet. A PB told me that to get into the smaller ones, you pretty much need to be running a $75-$100/hand LIFETIME avg (worry not, if you're betting even a $15 unit and spread 1-20, you should hit that easy as long as you call the boss over when you're betting big). I, myself, just got Player Development to card me in for weekends to the club in the 21st floor of the Pequot Tower (my lifetime avg is probably close to $200/hand). It's gorgeous up there btw. In any case, the free food is huge +EV, especially since it's a buffet and not extraordinarily bad for you (better than Subway and Nathan's Hot Dogs at least), and it's open bar with REALLY quality stuff if that's your particular brand of vodka, so to speak. So if you're betting big, call your local PB over and see if he/she can't get you into a Player's Club (they'll call a host desk). It's really good stuff.

How's everyone been lately?
 
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johndoe

Well-Known Member
#3
I'm curious what the first section was that was deleted. I'm going to Foxwoods (esp. MGM) much more regularly these days and it looks like I can learn a lot from your experiences.

Please PM if you're more comfortable that way.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#4
Correction to post by Suited Aces

The post included:

"... feel free to ask your PB what he/she has your average at."

Firstly, the Pit Boss will NEVER speak to you - unless there is a major problem, such as them "backing you off".

The person he is suggesting that you ask is the Floor Person or (technically) "Game Supervisor". The person who is directly observing your buy-ins, recording your average wagers, watching your"color-ups", etc.

The advice cited above is really BAD ADVICE as it will create negative attention. Thrice this year I (and a companion in 2 of the 3 cases) was told that it is a violation of Federal (Treasury) Regulations for them to have any discussions with a patron concerning how much you have bought in for, how much your average bet is, etc.

I play pretty high stakes a few times weekly and have done so for years.

Incidentally, if you think that they do not "bar" and even "trespass" Card Counters in Connecticut, you are sadly mistaken. Of that I can assure you. If you are greedyand try to exploit their games to the hilt you will be escorted off of the property.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#5
Correction to post by Suited Aces

The post included:

"... feel free to ask your PB what he/she has your average at."

Firstly, the Pit Boss will NEVER speak to you - unless there is a major problem, such as them "backing you off".

The person he is suggesting that you ask is the Floor Person or (technically) "Game Supervisor". The person who is directly observing your buy-ins, recording your average wagers, watching your"color-ups", etc.

The advice cited above is really BAD ADVICE as it will create negative attention. Thrice this year I (and a companion in 2 of the 3 cases) was told that it is a violation of Federal (Treasury) Regulations for them to have any discussions with a patron concerning how much you have bought in for, how much your average bet is, etc.

I play pretty high stakes a few times weekly and have done so for years.

Incidentally, if you think that they do not "bar" and even "trespass" Card Counters in Connecticut, you are sadly mistaken. Of that I can assure you. If you are greedy and try to exploit their games to the hilt you will be escorted off of the property.
 

N&B

Well-Known Member
#6
I'll 2nd the vote by Flash. Arrogance and greed by the OP, coupled with the reconoitering of Ave. Bet and comp. position. Just slide the clubcard into a slot machine, the total gets updated by your next daily visit. At least thats the case in CT, and has been for years... maybe since inception.

Dangerous thread for the uninformed.
 
#7
FLASH1296 said:
The post included:

"... feel free to ask your PB what he/she has your average at."

Firstly, the Pit Boss will NEVER speak to you - unless there is a major problem, such as them "backing you off".

The person he is suggesting that you ask is the Floor Person or (technically) "Game Supervisor". The person who is directly observing your buy-ins, recording your average wagers, watching your"color-ups", etc.

The advice cited above is really BAD ADVICE as it will create negative attention. Thrice this year I (and a companion in 2 of the 3 cases) was told that it is a violation of Federal (Treasury) Regulations for them to have any discussions with a patron concerning how much you have bought in for, how much your average bet is, etc.

I play pretty high stakes a few times weekly and have done so for years.

Incidentally, if you think that they do not "bar" and even "trespass" Card Counters in Connecticut, you are sadly mistaken. Of that I can assure you. If you are greedy and try to exploit their games to the hilt you will be escorted off of the property.
You are partially correct and partially incorrect. PC's discuss average bet with players all the time. Ploppies ask what they are being rated at all the time, and they are told. CTR/SAR rules do not prohibit discussing a patron's action or buy-in, but they are not allowed to assist a patron in "structuring" a transaction (trying to circumvent the $10K reporting limit). The CTR requirement requires a report to be filed for handing a patron more than $9,999 in currency in one day, and nothing else. A check transaction is not covered. The SAR requires the casino to file a report detailing "suspicious" activity, and this is what they are not allowed to discuss with the patron.

If comps are part of your game, use your discretion in asking, but not asking is a problem too because if you are not being rated properly you are missing out on part of your EV. But if you're a comp hustler you already know all about this and know when to ask and when to keep your mouth shut.

Yes they do bar, back off, and comp-freeze AP's in Connecticut. It's not exactly Reno in terms of sweat. But if you are banned, it will be from far upstairs after a long period of analysis of your play and there will be no warning.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#8
errrr; let's let this end here

Obviously patrons ask about their average bets and 90% of the time the floorperson replies; but I know for a fact that the staff at Foxwoods has been ordered to refuse you information about your aggregate buy-in and some of them extend that to average bet as well.

I was not exactly accurate when I said "NEVER" Perhaps three in a hundred Pit Bosses will speak to a patron, but it is rare. Floor Persons have limited authority. They are glorified clerks.

The way in which staff are told to study the regulations (re: aiding patrons with "possible" structuring) that are excessively vague and very very broadly INERPRETED; e.g. The Patron's asking how much he is "if for" at any point COULD be an attempt to avoid triggering a C.T.R. I have had this discussion with Casino Staff.

When you say "more than $9,999" you are incorrect. I used to (purposely) buy in for 10K regularly without triggering C T R's as I would pocket the big chips and put NO further cash on the table. It takes a sum in EXCEEDING $10,000. In some casinos I have had staff make this same error, and I have had them check their error.

Incidentally, while it is always a (required) secret as to exactly when the 24 clock expires on the 24 hrs. of aggregate cash transactions, it is almost an open secret that (in any casino) it is in the wee hours of the morning, usually at 4:00 a.m.

Please excuse my poor syntax.
 
#9
FLASH1296 said:
Obviously patrons ask about their average bets and 90% of the time the floorperson replies; but I know for a fact that the staff at Foxwoods has been ordered to refuse you information about your aggregate buy-in and some of them extend that to average bet as well.

I was not exactly accurate when I said "NEVER" Perhaps three in a hundred Pit Bosses will speak to a patron, but it is rare. Floor Persons have limited authority. They are glorified clerks.

The way in which staff are told to study the regulations (re: aiding patrons with "possible" structuring) that are excessively vague and very very broadly INERPRETED; e.g. The Patron's asking how much he is "if for" at any point COULD be an attempt to avoid triggering a C.T.R. I have had this discussion with Casino Staff.

When you say "more than $9,999" you are incorrect. I used to (purposely) buy in for 10K regularly without triggering C T R's as I would pocket the big chips and put NO further cash on the table. It takes a sum in EXCEEDING $10,000. In some casinos I have had staff make this same error, and I have had them check their error.

Incidentally, while it is always a (required) secret as to exactly when the 24 clock expires on the 24 hrs. of aggregate cash transactions, it is almost an open secret that (in any casino) it is in the wee hours of the morning, usually at 4:00 a.m.

Please excuse my poor syntax.
Sorry, but this is mostly incorrect. I have never bought in or cashed out for more than $9999, but there have been plenty of times I have bought in for $5K and cashed out for $6K (and the other way around, unfortunately) without a CTR, and I have never done a CTR.

Furthermore there is a significant attitude difference between you handing them money and them handing you money. You can buy $10K in chips at a craps table, bet it on a hand of craps, lose, and walk out the door in disgust and they don't drag you back in the casino and make you fill out a CTR.

Most casinos would prefer you forget how much you have bought in for but I have asked and they have told me (not that I didn't know, I just wanted to draw attention to my loss.) In Nevada, where rules are generally followed.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#10
"Report of Suspicious Activity"

You may be unaware of the following. Most of us are. This can be crucial info for a few of us.

You said: "I have bought in for $5K and cashed out for $6K (and the other way around, unfortunately) without a CTR, and I have never done a CTR."

You do not "DO" a C.T.R. The casino will NOT tell you that a C.T.R. has been sent to The Treasury Department (not the I.R.S.) if they can find your social security number.

In fact they are forbidden by Federal regulation to inform you if they have done so without asking you for your Soc. Sec. No.

But there is a bigger issue. HERE is what you really need to know.

WORSE than the C.T.R. is the "Report of Suspicious Activity"

This report to the Treasury Department can be done without ANY minimum cash transactions being required. This regulation was promulgated to help the Feds track down money laundering operations by drug dealers, arms dealers, terrorists, etc. and has legitimate purpose; but, that being said, it is not inconceivable that if you offend the wrong person such a report can be posted to the Feds.

IF BOTH reports are filed I imagine that the Feds will actually take notice of your activity. A former Pro Player who is my closest friend purposely made certain that he deposited amounts in EXCESS of $10,000 when it was natural to do so. He sometimes had bought in for more than $10,000 as he was a virtual whale in his bet sizing. He placed "Professional Gambler" on the occupation line of his tax returns and paid his taxes in full.

The fear of CTR's is fairly silly. It is shared with the I.R.S. (upon request) of course, but the Bozos at the I.R.S. are not irrational. They do not think that a C.T.R. indicates undeclared winnings.

Two years ago I cut a deal with the I.R.S. as I had not filed my 1040s for a lot of years. They caught up with me due to my getting married. That had my finances (slightly) mingled with someone else's. They had a few C.T.R.'s that I was unaware of but they viewed them as no more than evidence of my being an asshole (perhaps compulsive) gambler - unable to properly manage his money. I paid my back taxes in full and they agreed to cancel the (big) fines.
 
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N&B

Well-Known Member
#11
I will post that even though I've never posted a $10K, the main Foxwoods cage used to have face ID cameras plainly in sight. I'm sure I've been photoed having several $2-4K transactions. There is always an eye in the cage in a subtle position, as they HAVE TO watch the transaction.
 

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#13
The recordings are similar to the old VCR styles, just much more thorough, and more easily available. You should always assume you're being recorded.

However, facial recognition is not nearly reliable enough to identify people walking by a camera, or even in a cage. What it *can* do is assign some higher likelihood for greater scrutiny by a human. Not really anything unusual to worry about in general.
 
#14
Most large casinos have upgraded systems to digital systems with terabytes drives. Another thing, check out ivewsystems.com for info about their iTrak, iGData, and iGNET systems and other competing technological companies in this area. You'll be amazed, as i am.
 
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